S02E01 – The Art of Business Innovation with Patrick Williams

[00:00:00] Hello Dreamers, thinkers and doers, welcome to Ideate with Florian.

[00:00:10] In this season we discover where good ideas come from, whether it's for a new feature,

[00:00:14] product or company.

[00:00:16] I'm your host Florian Hoornaar.

[00:00:18] For over 25 years I work with small and medium sized companies in engineering, sales and

[00:00:23] management.

[00:00:24] During that time I connected with many professionals to grow together.

[00:00:28] That makes me excited to explore the journeys of our guests with you, so let's dive in.

[00:00:34] Episode 1, The Art of Business Innovation with Patrick Williams

[00:00:38] In this episode of the Ideate with Florian podcast we have the pleasure of hosting Patrick

[00:00:42] Williams.

[00:00:43] Patrick is a passionate artist and president of Satori Innovation, a consulting and ideation

[00:00:49] accelerator.

[00:00:50] With Patrick we discuss the impact of our environment on creativity.

[00:00:55] Reflecting on the childhood in Omaha and the phenomenon of creative colonization.

[00:01:01] Discover the profound connection between passion and purpose, as Patrick provides practical

[00:01:05] tips for team leaders and emphasizes the importance of journaling in the creative

[00:01:09] process.

[00:01:10] Join us for an engaging conversation on creativity, entrepreneurship and the human

[00:01:17] experience.

[00:01:22] Welcome to the show, Patrick Williams from Omaha.

[00:01:25] Is that Nebraska?

[00:01:26] It is Nebraska, yes.

[00:01:28] Omaha, Nebraska.

[00:01:30] Formerly Boulder, Colorado.

[00:01:31] Move two years ago.

[00:01:33] You're a world famous TEDx speaker.

[00:01:37] I heard.

[00:01:38] I'm working on it I guess.

[00:01:43] We were just talking in the preparation about a nice anecdote to start to talk with.

[00:01:48] You said, well I can tell you about my day off at TEDx talk and you haven't shared it

[00:01:53] with anyone yet I believe so we've got a novelty.

[00:01:57] Yes, this is a novelty.

[00:01:59] So the day of was April 16th, 2016 and there were eight speakers, seven others and

[00:02:09] I and we showed up with all of our prep and the clothes we were going to wear and

[00:02:16] that was maybe three o'clock in the afternoon and one of the first things we

[00:02:20] were to do was a mic check and so we all went to the stage and the sound tech guy

[00:02:26] hooked us up with lapel mics and when we walked out on stage and the engineer said

[00:02:33] to me I'm scheduled to be last on the program but I was picked to be first for

[00:02:39] the sound check for I don't know if there is any reasoning to that.

[00:02:43] But the gentleman said say the first three lines and the last three lines of your talk

[00:02:48] and I had been practicing this talk four or five hours a day from beginning to end

[00:02:55] from beginning to end from beginning to end day in day out and when he said that

[00:03:01] literally I just went blank and then moments later I started to freak out

[00:03:07] because I'm about to be in front of it a sold out crowd in a few hours.

[00:03:12] So I said a few things I may have said the first line of the talk right and then

[00:03:18] I just stood there and he said that's okay and I went off and then literally for

[00:03:22] the next four and a half to five hours I went from different levels of completely

[00:03:29] freaked out to just moderately freaked out.

[00:03:33] So I found a room in this building that was a spare kitchen and I just went

[00:03:40] to the spare kitchen and just went through my talk over and over and over and

[00:03:44] over and over again with that feeling of oh my god when I get up on stage I'm

[00:03:49] not going to remember it because of that mic check moment.

[00:03:54] So I told my wife later I thought well maybe I could just go into the

[00:03:59] cooler and hide under a bag of potatoes or just run and jump out the

[00:04:05] window it had been snowing all day so there's like a foot and a half

[00:04:08] of snow on the ground so I could land in the snow and just take off running

[00:04:12] and no one would ever know what happened to Patrick.

[00:04:15] But so I kept rehearsing the performance you know the first speaker started

[00:04:21] and we had a monitor up in the green room and I went to watch the first

[00:04:25] person and there was a few little stumbles and which everybody goes

[00:04:31] through nearly everybody and I thought okay that's good so and we'd been

[00:04:36] prepped before that the editors can take anything out even though it's

[00:04:41] video and audio they can pretty seamlessly shift any mistakes.

[00:04:47] I thought oh that's good so we get all the way to my queue and I step on

[00:04:52] stage and I start out.

[00:04:55] After I think thoroughly prepared yourself right again.

[00:04:58] Right after thoroughly prepared I probably went through the whole

[00:05:01] talk a couple dozen times at least and I was doing well the first couple

[00:05:08] lines and then there actually what's funny is that there's a line in the

[00:05:13] first paragraph that I would often stumble over because I am not a writer

[00:05:20] I do write but it was an awkward sentence right and I got to that one

[00:05:24] and it became more awkward when I delivered it so eventually they cut

[00:05:29] that up but there was like three moments after that that I paused for a

[00:05:35] long time and then restarted and one of them almost at the end which

[00:05:41] altered the whole ending of my talk.

[00:05:44] Right.

[00:05:44] Was I look I looked over and I saw one of the speakers sitting in

[00:05:48] the front row and I'm not sure which one maybe it was Z and I thought

[00:05:52] oh there's Z and I look back up and I'm like oh here I am what's

[00:05:57] my next line so it took me a little while it's so amazing how it can

[00:06:01] just completely erase where you were by just a little moment of

[00:06:06] looking off offstage so but I jumped back in but I forgot a paragraph

[00:06:13] actually I forgot the definition to speak the definition of

[00:06:17] creativity that my wife had written.

[00:06:19] So I got to the end everything turned out fine they did an

[00:06:24] amazing job of editing but it was a emphasis on how I am not a

[00:06:33] memorizing kind of person.

[00:06:36] I'm more of a spontaneous extemporaneous speaker.

[00:06:40] I can get up and talk to an audience off the cuff for however

[00:06:45] long people want me to talk but that memorization was just a

[00:06:50] wild ride for sure.

[00:06:52] It is amazing how the mind works under pressure isn't it.

[00:06:55] It is true yeah you learn a lot.

[00:06:58] That's for sure.

[00:06:59] Yeah I'm going to use that also as a sort of a segue into our

[00:07:02] conversation if you don't mind that pressure cooker and that

[00:07:06] is the following scenario you've painted this scenario I'm going

[00:07:08] to paint this scenario too and I'm wondering how you can

[00:07:10] respond to that.

[00:07:12] So I'm an entrepreneur and I've tasked myself with creating

[00:07:15] the next big thing and just for the sake of this

[00:07:19] conversation let's call it the next big widget which can stand

[00:07:23] for next big feature product company I'm going to build the

[00:07:27] next big widget and as an entrepreneur I need that widget

[00:07:31] soon tomorrow preferably now.

[00:07:35] So you're a innovation and creativity advisor expert what

[00:07:41] would you say about that mindset of wanting to create

[00:07:44] an expecting like right now does that work usually not

[00:07:49] I believe the main issue is that most folks rely on the

[00:07:57] creativity to happen instantly and that is that can happen

[00:08:04] that sometimes happens but most of the time when any of us who

[00:08:09] are creatives were inside of it daily in some ways hourly

[00:08:16] that it's something that is always within kind of the

[00:08:23] immediate environment of an artist or a creative so anyone

[00:08:28] who is creative has has a sense of how close in proximity

[00:08:34] their creativity is and part of what I mean is that their

[00:08:38] environments reflect who they are as a creative person

[00:08:42] and it reflects their creativity so there may be objects in

[00:08:47] their in their studio of course but in their office in their

[00:08:51] cubby and wherever they may work that are are specifically

[00:08:57] thoughtfully placed in the environment that reflects their

[00:09:01] creativity even if they're not conscious of it but it's

[00:09:04] always there.

[00:09:06] The issue is when a person decides to build the

[00:09:12] greatest widget that's ever been imagined or created and then

[00:09:17] they have all these plans business plans and organizational

[00:09:21] plans and concept plans and plans of plans.

[00:09:27] The part of the plan that doesn't exist that they think

[00:09:30] will just happen is the creative process and to rely on it as

[00:09:35] a scheduled meeting like you you and Flori and I are

[00:09:39] going to make a widget and it's going to happen now and

[00:09:42] we're going to have we're having the meeting right now to

[00:09:45] create it.

[00:09:46] Right.

[00:09:46] Well that is probably not going to work unless we've been

[00:09:50] inside of our own personal processes and as a team the

[00:09:56] two of us in a team process specifically connected to

[00:10:01] creativity and imagination and play and so that

[00:10:06] preparation is just like it is for all these other things

[00:10:11] that we do in our life.

[00:10:12] If we're not like us getting together we both had to

[00:10:15] prepare to be here otherwise it wouldn't it wouldn't work.

[00:10:18] It wouldn't happen.

[00:10:19] So one of my main focuses is on assisting people in

[00:10:26] reigniting their connection to creativity on it really

[00:10:31] needs to be a daily basis especially if your if

[00:10:36] your idea is going to be a widget and the greatest

[00:10:41] widget that's ever been invented then you have to be in

[00:10:46] a daily process with your creativity with your

[00:10:51] imagination with playful connections cross domain

[00:10:56] experiences all of these things are necessary to

[00:11:01] get the widget because the widget will not happen

[00:11:04] even if all of your steps and all of the the

[00:11:09] conceptions of the organized process of your

[00:11:13] businesses.

[00:11:13] If all of those are in place it's still not going to

[00:11:16] happen because the imagination factor hasn't

[00:11:20] been engaged right and it is one of the trickiest

[00:11:24] things to speak to business people about because

[00:11:28] it's intangible.

[00:11:30] Right.

[00:11:31] Right.

[00:11:31] The widget is a thing.

[00:11:33] Right.

[00:11:34] Even if it's an app or a software design it is it

[00:11:37] is a thing.

[00:11:38] Yeah it's physical you can touch it you can you know

[00:11:40] you can have it your hands and but the imagination

[00:11:42] that those sprouts from is not is not tangible.

[00:11:46] Right.

[00:11:46] It's not yes.

[00:11:47] Exactly.

[00:11:47] So in your in your TED Talk you say that and I'm

[00:11:51] going to quote you a little bit here creative

[00:11:53] play imagination and creativity are the three

[00:11:56] elements that are the foundation of how we learn

[00:11:59] and then later you continue that when growing

[00:12:01] up these are labeled frivolous superficial and

[00:12:05] a waste of time.

[00:12:06] So this is about growing up as a child.

[00:12:10] How do you relate this to your own childhood

[00:12:11] experiences that you talk about the TED Talk

[00:12:14] just a little bit of a groundwork of where

[00:12:16] you come from.

[00:12:17] I was blessed to grow up out in the country

[00:12:20] north of I grew up in Omaha so this my wife

[00:12:23] and I grew up in this area and so we've

[00:12:25] relocated.

[00:12:26] So I was literally had a huge woods accessible

[00:12:33] to me from an early age and that was primary

[00:12:37] to my environment of play imagination and

[00:12:42] creativity.

[00:12:43] I would go out into the woods friends and I

[00:12:46] would always be out in the woods and using

[00:12:49] our imaginations to invent in nature.

[00:12:53] So I was extremely lucky in that way and also

[00:12:57] we had it wasn't really a large it certainly

[00:13:02] wasn't a large farm but it was a farm.

[00:13:04] We had hogs we had some steers dad would

[00:13:07] plant seed corn or feed corn.

[00:13:10] We had hay that we'd we'd bale.

[00:13:12] So I had the benefit of that growing up

[00:13:16] but also I was near enough to Omaha that

[00:13:19] libraries were accessible and my mom was an

[00:13:22] avid reader so I picked that up too when I

[00:13:26] was young.

[00:13:26] So all of those factors and then the

[00:13:30] experience of losing the woods ignited

[00:13:34] and I don't to this day I really don't

[00:13:36] understand the actual specifics of

[00:13:40] of that complex equation but it was a

[00:13:43] very powerful process excuse me within

[00:13:48] my creativity that it really marked the

[00:13:51] moment in my life where I chose to process

[00:13:56] that trauma with teaching myself.

[00:13:59] How did how did you lose the woods?

[00:14:01] It was an interstate was designed to go

[00:14:06] through that area.

[00:14:07] Right.

[00:14:07] So they literally bulldoze the trees down

[00:14:11] and literally put them in piles and lit

[00:14:14] them on fire.

[00:14:15] So one day you're playing in the woods

[00:14:17] being all imaginative making fortresses

[00:14:20] and next day bulldozers came through

[00:14:23] and you're looking out today.

[00:14:25] Pretty much.

[00:14:25] And that wants me into I put a huge amount

[00:14:28] of energy into teaching myself how to

[00:14:32] draw and then a few years later

[00:14:34] teaching myself how to paint.

[00:14:36] And then then eventually I had I had

[00:14:38] lots of great teachers in junior high

[00:14:42] in high school.

[00:14:42] Well I took one special art class

[00:14:45] in ninth grade and then I took one

[00:14:47] art class in high school and I was

[00:14:50] sort of my trajectory I thought was

[00:14:54] more toward college degree in physics.

[00:14:57] So I was kind of in some ways preparing

[00:14:59] for both.

[00:15:00] I was making paintings at home but also

[00:15:03] studying physics and then eventually

[00:15:06] in college chose BFA a Bachelor in

[00:15:10] Fine Arts rather than a Bachelor in

[00:15:12] Science or Masters in Science.

[00:15:14] I was so happy for you and also

[00:15:16] a little bit jealous when I heard that

[00:15:18] you really found your passion and your

[00:15:21] purpose there of being able to

[00:15:23] sustain yourself as an artist.

[00:15:25] I believe those were your exact words

[00:15:26] in your TED Talk that I listened to.

[00:15:29] My question to you is our passion

[00:15:30] and purpose are those the same things

[00:15:32] to you and how do you know

[00:15:35] what that passion and purpose is

[00:15:37] and how important is it for you to

[00:15:39] know that?

[00:15:40] My initial thought is that they

[00:15:42] are they are the same at times.

[00:15:46] I think passion is like the weather in a

[00:15:48] way both hot weather is really good

[00:15:51] and sometimes cold weather is really

[00:15:53] good.

[00:15:54] You know a storm might be positive

[00:15:57] or negative so the passions can go up

[00:15:59] and down but I think our purpose is

[00:16:02] is more of a vision of a path

[00:16:07] which can could be a road or could

[00:16:09] be path up a mountain.

[00:16:11] You've done a bunch of hikes I assume

[00:16:14] in Colorado and you know sometimes

[00:16:17] you've never been on this hike and

[00:16:18] you have no idea what it's going to be

[00:16:20] like.

[00:16:20] You know even if they say oh that's a

[00:16:22] moderate hike sometimes those

[00:16:24] moderate hikes are either

[00:16:26] mislabeled or nobody really

[00:16:29] was paying attention and it becomes

[00:16:31] sort of intense but our our

[00:16:33] purpose is like the path up the

[00:16:36] mountain.

[00:16:36] Right.

[00:16:37] We keep step by step with

[00:16:40] our purpose moving forward

[00:16:42] and our passion will go up

[00:16:44] and down but I think both are

[00:16:46] both are certainly needed and I

[00:16:48] encourage people to fire up

[00:16:51] their passion as often as possible

[00:16:53] right because that helps in the

[00:16:55] creative process.

[00:16:56] You know it's just if you're not

[00:16:58] seeking out those those

[00:17:00] peripheral experiences that I feel

[00:17:03] are so important as an example of

[00:17:05] going to a dance or going to

[00:17:08] something I wanted to touch base

[00:17:09] with you.

[00:17:10] Have you ever been to the

[00:17:12] Tongaloe Abbey?

[00:17:14] No no I've I'm familiar with

[00:17:17] that one.

[00:17:18] OK it's and I know it's in the

[00:17:20] Netherlands it may be close to

[00:17:22] Antwerp so it is it has

[00:17:26] a full scale replica of

[00:17:29] Da Vinci's Last Supper.

[00:17:31] OK.

[00:17:32] And it's an oil painting so it

[00:17:34] is it's not on you know Da

[00:17:36] Vinci's Last Supper is in

[00:17:37] horrible horrible condition so I

[00:17:40] would suggest to you that would

[00:17:42] be a great one the Abbey is

[00:17:45] is like 900 years old so

[00:17:48] that experience would be a

[00:17:50] cross domain informational

[00:17:53] goldmine of experience.

[00:17:55] But also seeing seeing the Last

[00:17:58] Supper that well

[00:18:00] reproduced is will would

[00:18:03] give you types of information

[00:18:06] that you can't really put your

[00:18:07] thing it's back to that

[00:18:08] intangible quality.

[00:18:09] But I would you know I can't

[00:18:11] guarantee for sure but I

[00:18:13] deeply feel an experience like

[00:18:16] that of having been in the

[00:18:18] presence of such a famous

[00:18:21] painting even though it's a

[00:18:22] reproduction and some people

[00:18:24] speculate that Da Vinci may have

[00:18:27] had a little bit of his hand in

[00:18:29] it so but it's taken from a

[00:18:31] direct cartoon and a cartoon

[00:18:33] is a preliminary sketch.

[00:18:35] So it's not like a Donald

[00:18:36] Duck or Snoopy.

[00:18:38] No.

[00:18:38] Yeah.

[00:18:38] So that as an example of the

[00:18:42] necessary parts that that

[00:18:44] add to to people's creative

[00:18:47] passion and creative

[00:18:49] sparking and creative

[00:18:51] ignition would be super

[00:18:53] useful.

[00:18:54] So my taking from that is

[00:18:55] just connect yourself with

[00:18:58] with whatever you feel

[00:18:59] connected for with and

[00:19:00] don't want it too much like

[00:19:02] why am I feeling connected to

[00:19:04] this and just stick with that

[00:19:05] for a few weeks and expose

[00:19:07] yourself to exactly.

[00:19:09] Right.

[00:19:10] So the the thinking that

[00:19:13] oh that's interesting is very

[00:19:15] significant to who each of us

[00:19:18] are as human beings.

[00:19:20] Right.

[00:19:20] Especially connected to both

[00:19:22] our passion and our purpose

[00:19:24] most of the time because

[00:19:26] it's intangible and many if

[00:19:29] not or not not all but nearly

[00:19:31] all business folks are like I

[00:19:33] said earlier there which is

[00:19:35] makes sense.

[00:19:37] Very concerned with items that

[00:19:39] are going to step by step make

[00:19:42] the the concept of the

[00:19:44] widget happen.

[00:19:45] Right.

[00:19:45] So when I suggest going to see

[00:19:49] the last supper and Abby in

[00:19:52] the Netherlands people will be

[00:19:56] a little skeptical like what

[00:19:58] does that have to do with my

[00:20:00] which is right.

[00:20:00] Right.

[00:20:01] There's very few connection

[00:20:02] between AMV where is the

[00:20:04] connection.

[00:20:05] Yeah.

[00:20:05] Right.

[00:20:05] Right.

[00:20:06] Right.

[00:20:06] And and I'm saying trust me

[00:20:09] it's there and you'll be

[00:20:10] surprised and that's like I

[00:20:12] said in my one of the

[00:20:14] connections we made is that

[00:20:16] surprises that's you know what

[00:20:18] I said what makes a great

[00:20:20] podcast or a great interview.

[00:20:22] And I said surprise in my

[00:20:24] in my morning meditations that

[00:20:26] I make a drawing every morning

[00:20:28] and I'm looking for that I'm

[00:20:29] looking for that surprise.

[00:20:31] I'm not forcing it.

[00:20:32] I'm not saying I am going to be

[00:20:34] surprised but I

[00:20:36] offer myself that

[00:20:39] challenge like how can I

[00:20:41] how can I surprise myself.

[00:20:42] What would surprise myself.

[00:20:44] What would what would that

[00:20:45] look like.

[00:20:46] Let me go back a little bit.

[00:20:48] So we're going back a fort a

[00:20:49] bit in this conversation and

[00:20:51] I that's going to happen.

[00:20:53] So we go from childhood

[00:20:55] adulthood childhood childhood

[00:20:57] because I feel that creativity

[00:20:59] and innovation is very

[00:21:01] much connected to as a child.

[00:21:03] Absolutely.

[00:21:04] Can you describe to me just

[00:21:07] walk me through it very briefly.

[00:21:09] The part of a typical child

[00:21:11] going from that creative

[00:21:13] person building a fortress

[00:21:15] in the woods.

[00:21:16] How is it typically end up.

[00:21:18] This is a somewhat

[00:21:21] obviously US centric

[00:21:24] view but I believe

[00:21:26] there's a this is

[00:21:29] relatively what young people

[00:21:31] are experiencing for the last

[00:21:33] large chunk of time for

[00:21:35] you know 50 60 70 80

[00:21:37] maybe 100 years in

[00:21:39] especially in the West so to

[00:21:41] speak.

[00:21:41] So when we're born

[00:21:43] and even it even starts

[00:21:45] before we're born before

[00:21:46] we're born we start

[00:21:48] recognizing sound

[00:21:50] and literally connecting to the

[00:21:52] emotion obviously of our

[00:21:54] of our mothers but we

[00:21:56] were hearing sound that's

[00:21:58] why people suggest playing

[00:22:00] music for you know the

[00:22:02] little ones that aren't born yet

[00:22:04] reading poetry reading books

[00:22:05] etc etc etc all those things

[00:22:07] are are essential.

[00:22:09] And then once we're born

[00:22:10] we literally invent

[00:22:13] our world

[00:22:15] the world that is our

[00:22:16] conception through

[00:22:18] our play through our

[00:22:21] exploration through our

[00:22:22] discovery through what

[00:22:24] begins to develop as our

[00:22:26] imagination and also

[00:22:28] our creativity.

[00:22:29] This is fundamentally very

[00:22:31] physically at first of

[00:22:32] you know little infants

[00:22:34] reaching out recognizing

[00:22:35] their mother recognizing

[00:22:37] their father those little

[00:22:38] bits and pieces recognizing

[00:22:40] voices but then as

[00:22:42] we progress we start

[00:22:44] exploring the world and as

[00:22:46] we progress more we

[00:22:47] we literally are

[00:22:50] playfully energizing

[00:22:52] our understanding of the

[00:22:53] world and that continues

[00:22:55] to develop in the most

[00:22:57] amazing ways the development

[00:22:59] of language then

[00:23:01] the development of our

[00:23:03] more specific imagination

[00:23:06] playing make believe

[00:23:08] and in such when we're young

[00:23:10] and that is is well

[00:23:12] and fine and healthy often

[00:23:15] especially through the age

[00:23:17] of four and five and then

[00:23:19] through the auspicious

[00:23:23] of our school systems

[00:23:25] we enter into a whole

[00:23:28] different type of

[00:23:30] what I would say learning

[00:23:31] with the lower case L rather

[00:23:33] than learning with a

[00:23:34] large case L so

[00:23:36] learning with a large case

[00:23:37] L is connected to play

[00:23:39] imagination and creativity

[00:23:41] that that is how

[00:23:43] all human beings learn

[00:23:45] there's a researcher

[00:23:47] named Peter Gray

[00:23:49] and doctor I think

[00:23:50] Scott Simon they both

[00:23:52] have done a tremendous work

[00:23:54] in researching play and there's

[00:23:56] lots of other play researchers

[00:23:57] out there psychologists

[00:23:59] that have done both studies

[00:24:02] and analysis and theorizing

[00:24:04] and and such

[00:24:05] and they as well as

[00:24:08] the communities of

[00:24:10] early childhood education

[00:24:12] Johan

[00:24:13] that's the load see I think is

[00:24:16] I may not be exact

[00:24:18] I he did a tremendous amount

[00:24:19] of research

[00:24:21] 200 years ago

[00:24:22] with respect to play

[00:24:23] and how children learn

[00:24:25] there's a very famous

[00:24:27] group in Italy called

[00:24:28] Reggio Emilia

[00:24:29] that has a very specific

[00:24:31] vision on how children

[00:24:33] learn through play

[00:24:34] so there's a tremendous amount

[00:24:35] of academic background

[00:24:36] on this idea it's not

[00:24:38] it's not only mine

[00:24:39] it's based on

[00:24:41] what I've read so play is

[00:24:42] super important but also

[00:24:43] some of my

[00:24:44] my original thinking

[00:24:46] about it is

[00:24:47] there is what I call

[00:24:48] creative colonization

[00:24:50] so as you enter school

[00:24:53] a child's natural

[00:24:56] learning language

[00:24:58] so to speak is interrupted

[00:25:01] and we're given another

[00:25:03] language of learning

[00:25:05] which is not natural

[00:25:07] to most children

[00:25:10] some people some kids thrive

[00:25:12] on scholastic or academic learning

[00:25:15] but there's there's an interruption

[00:25:17] to our natural learning language

[00:25:20] and our natural learning language

[00:25:22] is play creativity

[00:25:23] and imagination

[00:25:25] so as more academic

[00:25:28] obligations build up

[00:25:30] we're like I say in my talk

[00:25:32] we have less and less time

[00:25:33] for for play

[00:25:35] imagination and learning

[00:25:37] and then once the

[00:25:38] the colonization happens

[00:25:40] there's a kind of creative collapse

[00:25:42] so all of us I use

[00:25:44] myself as an example

[00:25:46] I had a creative collapse

[00:25:48] with respect to playing music

[00:25:50] I was slow to talk

[00:25:53] I didn't talk until I was

[00:25:55] three little older than three

[00:25:57] and to read I was

[00:25:59] I didn't start reading till later

[00:26:01] probably nine ten ish maybe

[00:26:04] reading enthusiastically and well

[00:26:07] so the arc of being interrupted

[00:26:11] causes ourselves to be

[00:26:13] colonized and the creative collapse

[00:26:15] and my creative collapse happened around music

[00:26:18] the in third grade I think it was

[00:26:19] the teacher

[00:26:20] you know put up those five lines

[00:26:22] and started putting notes up

[00:26:23] and described what notes were

[00:26:25] and I'm like

[00:26:26] what is going on

[00:26:28] I'm just figuring out

[00:26:29] the didn't make sense anymore

[00:26:31] I'm just trying to keep up with

[00:26:33] the like the English letters

[00:26:35] and the words and all those things

[00:26:37] so it was completely foreign

[00:26:39] and we had these little flutes

[00:26:42] that we were then to

[00:26:44] play music

[00:26:45] and then we had

[00:26:46] eventually we had a recital

[00:26:48] you know not a real recital

[00:26:50] but we we performed at some

[00:26:52] what did they call them

[00:26:54] assembly we called it an assembly

[00:26:56] when all the kids get together

[00:26:57] some would sing and some would play flutes

[00:26:59] or our year was

[00:27:00] that year was to play the flutes

[00:27:01] and I just moved my fingers

[00:27:03] because whenever

[00:27:04] I blew into it because I wasn't

[00:27:06] able to read the

[00:27:08] the notes

[00:27:09] it would always come out horrible

[00:27:11] so I just moved my fingers

[00:27:13] and it took me a long time to

[00:27:15] reconnect myself with music

[00:27:18] and that was

[00:27:19] my one of my creative collapses

[00:27:22] whereas in

[00:27:23] with imagery I didn't have

[00:27:25] that kind of collapse

[00:27:26] so children

[00:27:27] in general

[00:27:29] they they go through these

[00:27:31] levels of

[00:27:32] of being colonized

[00:27:33] which means their natural way

[00:27:35] of learning gets pushed away

[00:27:37] they don't have they have less

[00:27:38] and less time to play

[00:27:39] and eventually they have a creative collapse

[00:27:42] so they lose that connection

[00:27:45] sometimes it's a slow

[00:27:47] process where they just lose it like

[00:27:50] a siege that you know

[00:27:52] right they just

[00:27:53] they slowly give up

[00:27:55] but sometimes it's

[00:27:56] it's a it's a specific event

[00:27:58] and I mentioned a couple in

[00:28:00] my TEDx talk where

[00:28:01] a woman that was

[00:28:03] she's she's a TEDx coach

[00:28:05] actually wasn't my coach at the time

[00:28:07] but we had connected

[00:28:08] years before that

[00:28:09] she told me a story of

[00:28:11] she knew all the specifics

[00:28:13] of a third grade teacher

[00:28:15] ridiculing her and

[00:28:16] that was it she

[00:28:17] she wouldn't draw anymore

[00:28:19] and she drew after our

[00:28:21] our connection our initial meeting together

[00:28:23] she she started making her drawing

[00:28:24] and since then she's

[00:28:25] she's had a little art show

[00:28:27] so

[00:28:28] so these things

[00:28:29] they're all there and

[00:28:30] part of my the

[00:28:31] focus and especially with

[00:28:33] respect to business folks

[00:28:34] is that

[00:28:35] their creativity is within them

[00:28:38] it can't go anywhere

[00:28:39] it is our natural state of being

[00:28:42] it's our natural state of learning

[00:28:44] all of them when they were children

[00:28:46] when from zero to four

[00:28:48] five six seven years old

[00:28:49] somewhere in there

[00:28:50] they were totally creative

[00:28:51] whenever they

[00:28:52] if summer break winter break

[00:28:54] weekends

[00:28:55] after school

[00:28:56] they played

[00:28:57] which meant

[00:28:58] they did something inventive

[00:28:59] right you know they did something

[00:29:01] with their imaginations

[00:29:02] even if it was like

[00:29:03] a sports game

[00:29:05] or

[00:29:06] they were just

[00:29:07] they picked up sticks

[00:29:08] and they were using them for

[00:29:09] swords or

[00:29:11] spears or whatever

[00:29:12] whatever it might be

[00:29:13] it's inventive

[00:29:14] its imagination

[00:29:15] and kids are

[00:29:16] that's what they do

[00:29:17] you literally could take

[00:29:19] a child from

[00:29:21] ten different countries

[00:29:22] around the world

[00:29:23] four year olds

[00:29:24] and put them together

[00:29:26] with no language

[00:29:27] connection

[00:29:28] nobody knows each other's language

[00:29:30] and I guarantee you

[00:29:32] they would be playing

[00:29:33] within

[00:29:33] thirty seconds

[00:29:34] yeah or a minute

[00:29:35] yeah you don't need language

[00:29:36] at that age

[00:29:37] so that's a good thing to remember

[00:29:39] if you're in a board meeting

[00:29:40] with all the CEOs

[00:29:41] and whatever

[00:29:42] see people we've got

[00:29:43] they were also four or five

[00:29:45] year olds at one time

[00:29:46] you know

[00:29:46] playing in the woods

[00:29:47] and

[00:29:48] exactly

[00:29:49] playing with imaginary swords

[00:29:50] and yeah

[00:29:52] so

[00:29:52] if I say that

[00:29:54] responsibilities

[00:29:55] put out the creative side of people

[00:29:57] is that fair?

[00:29:59] the pressure

[00:30:00] you know

[00:30:00] yes

[00:30:00] it certainly has a giant

[00:30:02] effect on

[00:30:03] yes

[00:30:03] because I also

[00:30:04] sort of prefaced this episode

[00:30:06] but

[00:30:07] I need to make the next big thing

[00:30:08] and I need to make it now

[00:30:10] I mean that's a

[00:30:10] that's pressure

[00:30:11] that I put on myself right

[00:30:13] am I pushing out the creative

[00:30:15] in me

[00:30:15] by

[00:30:16] that approach?

[00:30:17] well sure

[00:30:17] in a way

[00:30:18] so

[00:30:19] the easiest example

[00:30:20] I have is

[00:30:22] my background in martial arts

[00:30:24] and I was lucky enough

[00:30:26] to begin

[00:30:27] in

[00:30:28] a hard style

[00:30:29] which means

[00:30:30] karate

[00:30:31] is

[00:30:32] punching, kicking

[00:30:33] blocking, striking

[00:30:35] and then

[00:30:36] also

[00:30:37] I studied aikido

[00:30:38] which is

[00:30:39] using

[00:30:40] the person who is attacking

[00:30:42] using their

[00:30:43] momentum and their energy

[00:30:45] to divert

[00:30:46] anything else happening

[00:30:48] so

[00:30:49] this is applicable to both scenarios

[00:30:51] but it's most

[00:30:52] prevalent in aikido

[00:30:54] in aikido

[00:30:55] if you tense up

[00:30:57] you cannot do

[00:30:59] the technique correctly

[00:31:00] another good example is that

[00:31:02] with respect to dancing

[00:31:03] if you're dancing with someone

[00:31:05] and you're all tense

[00:31:07] and stiff

[00:31:08] you're not really going to be able to dance

[00:31:10] it interrupts it

[00:31:11] so

[00:31:12] that pressure of responsibility

[00:31:14] is somewhat like

[00:31:16] tensing up

[00:31:17] because the more pressure you're feeling

[00:31:19] of

[00:31:20] getting the widget

[00:31:22] made

[00:31:23] the more tense

[00:31:24] you get

[00:31:25] and tension is

[00:31:27] that kind of tension

[00:31:29] there's another tension that I want to talk about

[00:31:30] but that kind of tension is

[00:31:32] is

[00:31:33] detrimental

[00:31:34] there is a positive

[00:31:36] type of tension

[00:31:38] within creativity that we all need

[00:31:41] as an example

[00:31:42] back to dance

[00:31:43] the floor

[00:31:44] the solid floor

[00:31:46] is

[00:31:46] the positive tension that the dancer has

[00:31:49] between

[00:31:50] their body

[00:31:51] and physical reality with gravity

[00:31:53] right

[00:31:54] that tension is necessary

[00:31:56] the opposite would be

[00:31:57] dance

[00:31:58] in

[00:31:59] in orbit

[00:32:00] in space

[00:32:01] with no gravity which

[00:32:02] hasn't

[00:32:03] well hasn't been invented here on earth yet

[00:32:06] or in space

[00:32:07] but I see what you mean

[00:32:09] I feel like it will be

[00:32:10] a whole different

[00:32:11] set of circumstances

[00:32:13] but the

[00:32:14] the

[00:32:14] the negative tension in responsibility

[00:32:17] will stop

[00:32:19] the qualities

[00:32:20] necessary for

[00:32:22] the widget to

[00:32:23] be created

[00:32:24] does that make sense?

[00:32:25] that makes absolute sense yeah

[00:32:34] the future of work is flexible

[00:32:37] if you are being mandated

[00:32:39] to return to the office

[00:32:41] fear not

[00:32:42] there are things that you can do

[00:32:44] to create flexibility for yourself

[00:32:47] and there are things that you can do

[00:32:49] to prepare for the inevitable flexibility

[00:32:51] that is coming your way

[00:32:53] collaboration superpowers helps

[00:32:55] people and companies work better together

[00:32:58] from anywhere

[00:32:59] and we've got a free remote working success kit

[00:33:02] to get you started

[00:33:04] from personal user manuals

[00:33:05] to team agreements

[00:33:06] virtual icebreakers

[00:33:08] and more

[00:33:09] download the

[00:33:10] remote working success kit

[00:33:12] at collaboration superpowers.com

[00:33:15] we'll see you online

[00:33:19] and in terms of a company

[00:33:21] business environment

[00:33:22] what would be an example of a dance floor there

[00:33:25] like a that hard

[00:33:26] tension that you would need?

[00:33:27] the positive creative tension

[00:33:29] in the business scenario

[00:33:31] I believe

[00:33:32] would be

[00:33:34] going to

[00:33:35] the Tangalo Abbey

[00:33:37] to look at the

[00:33:39] reproduction of Da Vinci's

[00:33:41] Last Supper

[00:33:42] it would be

[00:33:43] going to a jazz club

[00:33:45] with your team

[00:33:46] okay this is the most important part

[00:33:48] going to the jazz club

[00:33:50] with your team

[00:33:51] let's say there's nine other people

[00:33:52] there's ten of you

[00:33:53] you go there

[00:33:54] and you all have your journals

[00:33:56] which you know I'm an advocate for

[00:33:58] and this is

[00:34:00] this is one of your journals

[00:34:01] you have

[00:34:03] each person has a personal journal

[00:34:04] but this is the team

[00:34:06] this is the widget journal

[00:34:08] alright and on the front of this

[00:34:10] is basically you know this is

[00:34:12] Florian's widget journal

[00:34:13] so when you grab it

[00:34:15] you pick it up and you may design

[00:34:16] a specific cover for it

[00:34:18] so it's really

[00:34:19] it really stands out

[00:34:20] and helps you

[00:34:21] be in that creative space

[00:34:22] but you all take your

[00:34:24] widget journals to

[00:34:25] the jazz club

[00:34:28] with the idea

[00:34:28] you may not write anything down

[00:34:30] but you have it there

[00:34:32] it's with you

[00:34:32] that's to remind you that

[00:34:34] you're in your consciousness

[00:34:36] you're in the sphere of

[00:34:39] widgetness

[00:34:40] in the sphere of visioning

[00:34:42] what this widget is going to be

[00:34:44] you're there with that

[00:34:45] in the jazz club

[00:34:47] as an example whenever I go

[00:34:49] when I go to jazz

[00:34:50] I'm feeling and thinking about

[00:34:52] the paintings that I'm working on

[00:34:54] especially when I go to a museum

[00:34:56] it I'm looking at the paintings

[00:34:58] and seeing

[00:34:59] oh look at that technique

[00:35:01] oh that's so gorgeous

[00:35:03] my gosh I need to feel that

[00:35:05] and remember it

[00:35:06] not just with my eyes

[00:35:10] remember it

[00:35:11] but in a way for better term

[00:35:12] with my soul

[00:35:13] with my spirit

[00:35:14] and infuse it into my being

[00:35:17] so I can take it with me

[00:35:19] and that's what will help

[00:35:21] with taking your team

[00:35:23] to listen to jazz

[00:35:24] even though like I said before

[00:35:25] it doesn't make any sense

[00:35:27] I understand

[00:35:28] go there holding

[00:35:29] the idea of widget

[00:35:31] with you

[00:35:32] and it will assist

[00:35:35] in ways that will surprise

[00:35:37] I believe

[00:35:38] so with the teams

[00:35:39] being more open to

[00:35:42] how ideas come to you

[00:35:45] having an environment

[00:35:46] or objects within your environment

[00:35:49] that will assist you

[00:35:51] if you look at it

[00:35:53] you think oh wow I got

[00:35:54] I picked that rock up on

[00:35:57] on a mountain in Colorado

[00:36:00] and that may spark

[00:36:03] a whole bunch of feelings

[00:36:04] a whole bunch of ideas

[00:36:06] that will unlock

[00:36:08] the pathway to the widget

[00:36:10] you mentioned that the essence

[00:36:12] of creativity

[00:36:13] is not necessarily an object

[00:36:15] a project or a widget

[00:36:16] it's more the preparation

[00:36:19] and to me when I heard it

[00:36:20] and I let you explain it

[00:36:22] a bit later

[00:36:23] is that you lay a foundation

[00:36:26] of which creativity can happen

[00:36:29] the moment that you need it

[00:36:30] and you to elaborate on that

[00:36:33] you made a comparison

[00:36:36] to running a marathon

[00:36:37] and typically the comparison

[00:36:38] to run marathon is like

[00:36:39] we're running a marathon

[00:36:40] not a sprint

[00:36:41] but in this case you meant

[00:36:42] no no to run a marathon

[00:36:43] you can't run a marathon tomorrow

[00:36:45] you have to lay a foundation

[00:36:47] absolutely

[00:36:48] when I spontaneously

[00:36:50] you know came up with that idea

[00:36:51] it is completely

[00:36:53] you know I think

[00:36:54] you said in the

[00:36:55] or you inferred in the

[00:36:57] in the notes about

[00:36:58] how much that resonates with people

[00:37:02] even if they're not runners

[00:37:03] it makes sense to them

[00:37:04] because they know that

[00:37:06] 23 plus mile run

[00:37:09] is an insanely long ways to run

[00:37:13] and you can't do it tomorrow

[00:37:15] no

[00:37:15] you could try

[00:37:16] and maybe one out of 10 million people

[00:37:19] would be able to finish

[00:37:21] yeah you'll hurt yourself

[00:37:22] 100 million

[00:37:24] yeah yeah

[00:37:24] one out of 100 million

[00:37:25] might be able to run it

[00:37:27] right

[00:37:27] but very very rare

[00:37:29] and that's the same with

[00:37:31] with pushing

[00:37:33] a

[00:37:33] a widget

[00:37:35] into

[00:37:36] creative existence

[00:37:38] and that's all

[00:37:39] not all but that's the focus of my work

[00:37:41] is is assisting folks

[00:37:44] in understanding what a foundation

[00:37:46] what a creative foundation is

[00:37:49] and that then they can establish it

[00:37:51] and that first and foremost

[00:37:53] they establish it

[00:37:55] and then they keep it active

[00:37:57] right and that's why

[00:37:59] one of the reasons why I think journaling is so important because

[00:38:02] and daily journaling and

[00:38:04] with pen and paper

[00:38:06] not

[00:38:06] if you want to take notes on your devices that's fine

[00:38:10] but pen and paper

[00:38:12] is essential for the journaling process

[00:38:14] because it's a physical artifact

[00:38:17] that you can refer back to

[00:38:19] and it is foundational building

[00:38:21] if you write

[00:38:22] one or two or three

[00:38:25] pages a day

[00:38:26] then that

[00:38:28] is

[00:38:29] something that builds it's the

[00:38:31] it's the bricks and the stone

[00:38:33] in the earth

[00:38:35] of your creative process

[00:38:37] and and from that

[00:38:39] because inside the journaling

[00:38:42] you will be thinking about

[00:38:44] how was I creative when I was a child

[00:38:47] how am I creative now

[00:38:49] how are those things different

[00:38:50] how are they the same

[00:38:52] what is my vision for this widget

[00:38:55] you're always working it into

[00:38:58] you know who you are and what you're

[00:39:00] what you're working on which is the foundation

[00:39:03] and I was

[00:39:04] right at the beginning of

[00:39:06] where I was going to go was

[00:39:07] I'm in my studio

[00:39:09] I have a small commission coming up

[00:39:11] if I didn't have a studio

[00:39:13] and I was

[00:39:14] I said okay Monday or

[00:39:16] Wednesday tomorrow I'm gonna make start making that painting

[00:39:20] and I had to build my studio

[00:39:22] and fill it up with everything that I need in it

[00:39:25] I wouldn't be able to do it tomorrow

[00:39:27] right just like running the marathon

[00:39:29] so here's my studio

[00:39:32] I've been in it for a couple years

[00:39:34] I have things fairly organized

[00:39:37] you know they can always be more

[00:39:39] more organized

[00:39:41] but it has the

[00:39:43] essence and all the foundational

[00:39:46] necessities

[00:39:47] that I need to make a painting

[00:39:49] right

[00:39:50] I have the paints out the brushes out

[00:39:52] the pallets ready

[00:39:53] the stands my easels

[00:39:55] all of those things are here

[00:39:57] so tomorrow if I come in

[00:39:58] and this is the day I'm gonna start that commission

[00:40:01] I can do it

[00:40:02] so but that's like the physical things

[00:40:04] so if I go on Amazon

[00:40:06] now

[00:40:07] then tomorrow I can have all these things

[00:40:09] delivered to my house

[00:40:11] I can even rent the space

[00:40:12] and I've got my studio

[00:40:15] that's physical right

[00:40:17] that's a physical foundation

[00:40:19] true

[00:40:19] on top of that is

[00:40:21] a state of mind foundation

[00:40:23] if mental foundation

[00:40:25] absolutely

[00:40:26] that's not something you buy on Amazon

[00:40:27] right

[00:40:28] can't buy it on Amazon

[00:40:29] yeah I mean they may try in the future

[00:40:32] but so and that's a super great point

[00:40:35] because I feel like there's three levels to that

[00:40:38] I always look at concepts

[00:40:40] or you know relationships

[00:40:42] ideas projects

[00:40:44] in four levels

[00:40:46] the physical which we just talked about

[00:40:48] then there's the intellectual part

[00:40:51] how we

[00:40:53] how I'm going to think about

[00:40:56] a project

[00:40:57] the widget project

[00:40:58] how am I thinking about this

[00:41:00] and we need to be specific

[00:41:02] we need to be very

[00:41:05] connected to

[00:41:07] how

[00:41:08] we're thinking

[00:41:09] how we're critical about

[00:41:11] our thought process

[00:41:12] with relationship to the widget

[00:41:14] and this is back to what businesses do

[00:41:16] in some ways

[00:41:18] I have a criticism of it

[00:41:19] but in some ways business

[00:41:21] folks do it well

[00:41:23] that they have a lot of their ducks in a row so to speak

[00:41:26] in how they're thinking about the project

[00:41:29] but there's another part of

[00:41:30] thinking about the project that is

[00:41:32] in for better term more intellectual

[00:41:35] it's more

[00:41:36] philosophical in a way

[00:41:37] it's more

[00:41:39] determined to

[00:41:41] parse out

[00:41:42] the places where I'm thinking about it well

[00:41:44] and I'm thinking about it

[00:41:46] in a fuzzy way

[00:41:47] or I'm thinking about it really poorly

[00:41:49] and to be honest with ourselves that way

[00:41:51] so that's level two

[00:41:53] level three is the emotional part

[00:41:54] which

[00:41:55] instantly gets into a realm of

[00:41:58] oh I'm not sure about that

[00:42:00] but it's it's essential

[00:42:02] and also back to

[00:42:05] journaling it's journaling is a place that you can

[00:42:09] touch into those places

[00:42:11] that are absolutely essential to

[00:42:13] a business

[00:42:15] project

[00:42:16] let's say the widget that we're designing

[00:42:18] is how do I feel about this widget

[00:42:20] how do I feel about working on the widget

[00:42:22] how do I feel about the pressure

[00:42:24] I'm feeling to make the widget right now

[00:42:27] how do I feel about

[00:42:28] my other team members

[00:42:29] how do I feel about

[00:42:31] if I'm gonna

[00:42:32] succeed or fail

[00:42:33] how do I feel

[00:42:34] how do I feel

[00:42:35] have a section in your journal every day

[00:42:38] I feel and then fill in the blank

[00:42:41] right and if

[00:42:41] if nothing comes just

[00:42:43] get something on paper

[00:42:44] and then do it again

[00:42:45] how do I feel

[00:42:46] how do I feel

[00:42:47] how am I feeling today

[00:42:48] how am I feeling this morning

[00:42:50] how did I feel about

[00:42:51] yesterday's

[00:42:52] widget meeting

[00:42:54] that was a disaster

[00:42:55] but we learned something from it

[00:42:57] so there's the feeling part that is super

[00:42:59] super super important

[00:43:01] and then there's the

[00:43:03] even more intangible so each

[00:43:05] we go from the physical which is tangible

[00:43:07] and each of these

[00:43:08] higher steps

[00:43:10] are more and more intangible

[00:43:12] which is

[00:43:13] you know challenging for lots of people

[00:43:16] even for myself and at times

[00:43:18] you know I'm working on this

[00:43:19] I'm working on that

[00:43:20] there's these difficulties that

[00:43:21] that arise that's the natural state

[00:43:23] of being a human being

[00:43:24] so the fourth part is the

[00:43:26] however a person relates to it

[00:43:28] but the imaginary

[00:43:30] on one level or the

[00:43:32] the spiritual or the soul level of

[00:43:35] in some ways what that deeper part of us

[00:43:38] is connected to

[00:43:40] with what we talked about earlier

[00:43:41] our purpose and our passion

[00:43:44] because our what I believe our soul

[00:43:46] and spirit are really really deeply

[00:43:50] part of that

[00:43:52] those two aspects of passion and

[00:43:55] purpose but to be

[00:43:57] able to explore those

[00:44:00] experiences

[00:44:02] I don't because they're sort of thoughts

[00:44:04] and their sort of feelings in that

[00:44:06] in that soul or spiritual realm

[00:44:09] but there's a way to

[00:44:10] allow ourselves to express

[00:44:13] what is my

[00:44:16] spirit connection to the widget

[00:44:18] right seems increasingly more

[00:44:21] intangible but

[00:44:22] but it's useful

[00:44:23] to put ourselves in these places which

[00:44:26] which really cause us to

[00:44:28] to ask questions

[00:44:29] the more questions we ask the better

[00:44:32] as with

[00:44:34] working on a whole bunch of different projects

[00:44:36] and one of them

[00:44:37] my goal is to

[00:44:39] in some ways reproduce a

[00:44:41] a Renaissance

[00:44:42] painting style

[00:44:44] I'm not copying

[00:44:46] a Renaissance painting I'm developing it

[00:44:49] so I'm having to ask all these questions

[00:44:51] for myself like what what am I

[00:44:54] the main images

[00:44:57] mother Mary and

[00:44:59] okay what where is she what is she doing

[00:45:01] why is she there all these questions come up

[00:45:04] and that I have to

[00:45:05] that I have to be with what does the scene look like

[00:45:07] why is she there what what's going on

[00:45:09] so abyss the widget

[00:45:11] questions have to be the same

[00:45:13] we have to ask these physical questions

[00:45:15] these intellectual questions

[00:45:17] these emotional questions

[00:45:18] and these spiritual questions

[00:45:20] to to gain

[00:45:22] more of our foundation

[00:45:23] that's what our foundation is built

[00:45:25] on and just to be clear that foundation is a substrate

[00:45:29] that you build for yourself

[00:45:31] and that will stay with you for

[00:45:33] until your your die basically

[00:45:35] I mean that that will be part of you forever

[00:45:38] and on that substrate at one point in time

[00:45:41] spontaneously or otherwise

[00:45:43] the ID the next big thing will

[00:45:46] happen but it has to be

[00:45:47] you have to build a substrate first right

[00:45:49] totally yeah it's like a garden

[00:45:51] yeah if I plant my seeds

[00:45:53] on the cement floor nothing happens

[00:45:56] in my studio

[00:45:57] nothing happens

[00:45:58] you know if I if I go outside

[00:46:00] and put a building over the top of my seeds

[00:46:02] and I just have a photograph

[00:46:05] of the sun nothing's going to happen

[00:46:07] so the foundation has to be fertile

[00:46:10] and embracing

[00:46:12] have all these natural qualities that

[00:46:15] we bring as human beings to

[00:46:18] all of our processes

[00:46:19] and the foundation

[00:46:21] think of those four aspects

[00:46:23] the physical intellectual emotional and spiritual

[00:46:25] as the legs of a stool

[00:46:29] or a chair

[00:46:30] if one is really long

[00:46:31] and the other three are short

[00:46:33] then you know the chair is not going to be very useful

[00:46:35] they each have to be nurtured and developed

[00:46:38] I believe that's what all great

[00:46:40] great art comes from

[00:46:41] and that's what I think all great

[00:46:44] you know business innovation comes from

[00:46:46] is in the best of all possible worlds

[00:46:49] that's what makes it strong

[00:46:50] I believe

[00:46:51] and sometimes it's it's

[00:46:53] it happens by by luck and happenstance

[00:46:55] but most of the time I think

[00:46:57] the best are developed through a

[00:47:00] strong and healthy human being

[00:47:02] and all the things we talked about so far

[00:47:05] the journaling

[00:47:06] the going to a jazz club with your team

[00:47:08] things you're reading

[00:47:10] listening to the conversations you're having

[00:47:12] all these things are necessary parts of your

[00:47:15] creative process

[00:47:16] but they don't necessarily

[00:47:18] it's not like a step

[00:47:19] one, two, three, four, five bingo

[00:47:21] that's not how it works

[00:47:23] right?

[00:47:24] correct

[00:47:24] then once that you do have that

[00:47:27] eureka moment

[00:47:28] is it then that you find the idea

[00:47:31] or does the idea find you?

[00:47:33] that's a great question

[00:47:35] because you said I'm quoting you a little bit here

[00:47:37] that you said

[00:47:38] allow me how to show up

[00:47:40] that there is a and that's part of the foundation

[00:47:43] like the past year quote that

[00:47:45] that you noted also

[00:47:46] is in the fields of observation

[00:47:48] the prepared

[00:47:49] luck finds the prepared mind

[00:47:51] there's a whole bunch of different translations to that

[00:47:54] but essentially

[00:47:55] if you're not ready

[00:47:56] it's going to be invisible to you

[00:47:58] right

[00:47:58] so I firmly believe that

[00:48:01] that it happens both ways

[00:48:04] that at times the idea finds you

[00:48:06] and that other times you find the idea

[00:48:09] and some of this is based on

[00:48:12] that this is this is a whole other

[00:48:15] realm of study and concepts

[00:48:18] that I come from a background that I

[00:48:21] firmly believed

[00:48:23] and to a large degree know

[00:48:26] that there's more to ourselves

[00:48:29] than our physical bodies

[00:48:32] so in my realm

[00:48:34] I believe that there are a tremendous amount of ideas

[00:48:39] that are sort of like spiritual fragrances

[00:48:43] that move through the new sphere

[00:48:46] or the energetic field of all existence

[00:48:51] that we bump into

[00:48:53] and we smell or there are little

[00:48:56] little spheres that we

[00:48:58] visit you know somewhat

[00:49:00] interdimensional spheres that we

[00:49:02] an idea that we literally bump into

[00:49:05] with our consciousness

[00:49:06] and sometimes it really clicks

[00:49:09] so my sense is that yes

[00:49:11] ideas can come to us that way

[00:49:14] and sometimes we can originate

[00:49:17] a type of idea

[00:49:19] that I believe also is connected to some

[00:49:22] deeper realm of existence

[00:49:25] but at times we bump into it

[00:49:27] and other times it bumps into us

[00:49:29] and then the tricky part is

[00:49:31] to know what kind of idea that is

[00:49:35] right

[00:49:35] and sometimes when the light bulb really goes off

[00:49:38] if it's a big burst of light

[00:49:41] then that's often a really good sign

[00:49:44] that you should explore

[00:49:46] you should gather that idea

[00:49:48] into your embrace

[00:49:51] sometimes if you try to grab a hold of it

[00:49:53] it's like grabbing water

[00:49:55] grabbing air it will just go away

[00:49:58] so I encourage people when that bright

[00:50:02] light bulb comes on or however they

[00:50:04] conceive of it

[00:50:05] that they really allow themselves to

[00:50:09] absorb it rather than try to

[00:50:12] glom onto it like grab it

[00:50:14] like capture it

[00:50:15] often those as I think we all experience

[00:50:18] at times those new ideas

[00:50:20] so those big ideas are sometimes a little slippery

[00:50:23] they're just right on the edge

[00:50:25] like waking up and trying to remember a dream

[00:50:27] right

[00:50:28] man that dream was so amazing

[00:50:30] I love that dream but I can't remember it

[00:50:33] my wife is super great at remembering her dreams

[00:50:35] and I'm every

[00:50:37] not even a month

[00:50:39] once a month at best

[00:50:41] I'll remember snippets of a dream

[00:50:43] but so the ideas, the big ideas are like that

[00:50:46] when I have a big dream

[00:50:47] like a big light bulb dream

[00:50:49] I remember it

[00:50:50] so that's important

[00:50:51] I know it's important because I've remembered it

[00:50:53] those ideas when they do happen

[00:50:56] really pay attention to them

[00:50:58] and nurture them

[00:51:00] like a little like your guard again

[00:51:03] you have to give it some water

[00:51:05] you have to give it some light

[00:51:06] you have to get the weeds away from it

[00:51:09] the other ideas that aren't quite that seem like

[00:51:11] oh that might be a good idea

[00:51:12] but oh no no no that's not

[00:51:14] the real core idea to hold on to

[00:51:18] so for the folks who've been listening to this interview so far

[00:51:21] and who are

[00:51:23] maybe they're

[00:51:24] they're ideating themselves

[00:51:26] maybe they're coaching a team

[00:51:27] maybe they're leading a team

[00:51:29] what kind of practical tips do you have for them?

[00:51:32] let's say you're in a team

[00:51:34] like I mentioned earlier

[00:51:34] there are 10 people in your team

[00:51:36] you have your personal journals

[00:51:38] and you have your team journal

[00:51:40] you have your widget journal

[00:51:41] you have the journal that is dedicated to the widget

[00:51:44] and both of them

[00:51:47] for sure the personal journal

[00:51:48] you need to be writing in it every day

[00:51:51] and keeping

[00:51:52] you know put the data at the top of the page

[00:51:55] and write and write for three pages at least

[00:51:59] and then your team journal

[00:52:01] when I think you should carry it around with you

[00:52:04] I think this is this is practical

[00:52:06] because it allows you

[00:52:08] in the spur of the moment

[00:52:10] to write down everything that happened

[00:52:12] there's a famous story of Pone Corée

[00:52:14] a French mathematician

[00:52:17] that had been working on a problem

[00:52:19] and he finally was like

[00:52:21] forget about it

[00:52:22] I'm gonna go add into the country

[00:52:24] and he steps onto a carriage

[00:52:26] and the answer came to him

[00:52:29] right

[00:52:30] it was just boom

[00:52:31] so with your the widget journal

[00:52:35] you're going to the dog park

[00:52:37] and you have it with you

[00:52:38] and you're sitting there in the dog park

[00:52:40] throwing the ball for your dog

[00:52:42] and an idea comes to you

[00:52:44] which might not have been able to stay with you

[00:52:48] by the time you got home

[00:52:50] with your journal or whatever

[00:52:52] so have that widget journal with you at all times

[00:52:56] I also encourage

[00:52:58] and at times this can be

[00:53:01] you know I'm asking a lot in a way of folks

[00:53:04] but I guarantee you that it's super, super important

[00:53:08] that in the C-suite level

[00:53:10] they should have executive journals

[00:53:13] right

[00:53:14] so and that could be just something that they jot down in

[00:53:18] that is specific

[00:53:19] that's different than memos

[00:53:21] different than emails

[00:53:22] different than notes to

[00:53:24] within a program that you send off to different levels of the company

[00:53:28] this is the company

[00:53:30] the founders journal

[00:53:32] or whatever we label it

[00:53:35] because these are places that

[00:53:37] in some ways that they're sacred

[00:53:39] they hold our innermost ideas and thoughts

[00:53:43] that won't get away

[00:53:46] for me I started journaling

[00:53:48] 23 my wife taught me

[00:53:51] she's an avid journal winner

[00:53:52] and she said this is really important

[00:53:54] and once I started it was like

[00:53:56] oh my god this is incredible

[00:53:58] so I'm highly encouraging journaling

[00:54:01] one exercise that I teach people is draw two circles

[00:54:05] and make marks

[00:54:06] and then do it again

[00:54:07] and do it again

[00:54:08] do it every morning

[00:54:10] as a practice to just loosen up

[00:54:12] to let your mind completely disengage

[00:54:15] you can use it as a preparation

[00:54:17] for what you're going to be doing

[00:54:20] whatever it is

[00:54:22] whether it's a day of meetings

[00:54:24] or a day of you're in the factory

[00:54:26] you're looking at the machinery

[00:54:27] or whatever it might be

[00:54:28] it gets you ready

[00:54:29] it's like stretching before a workout

[00:54:32] stretching before you're running

[00:54:34] stretching the mind

[00:54:35] and don't worry too much about

[00:54:37] if whatever folks are doing

[00:54:40] is immediately relevant for the task at hand

[00:54:44] because if they're doing something that's not relevant

[00:54:46] for the task and they're just building this substrate

[00:54:48] that will later allow

[00:54:50] that's what I got from you

[00:54:52] Absolutely 100%

[00:54:54] and I'll mention one book

[00:54:55] I'll plug one book

[00:54:56] the author is Mason Curry

[00:54:58] C-U-R-R-E-Y

[00:54:59] he has a number of books out

[00:55:01] but this one was

[00:55:02] I think 2013

[00:55:04] it's called Rituals

[00:55:07] how artists plan their day

[00:55:09] or something like that

[00:55:10] it's a fabulous book

[00:55:12] for folks to understand

[00:55:16] how artists...

[00:55:18] he covers writers, painters, musicians

[00:55:22] and I think a few inventors possibly

[00:55:26] and he has some other books out also

[00:55:28] that I haven't read yet

[00:55:29] but it's a great book

[00:55:31] for people to get a feel for

[00:55:33] oh, this is how people are creative

[00:55:36] they do... they take walks

[00:55:38] Beethoven counted out his coffee beans

[00:55:42] you know, this is true to fact

[00:55:44] and some are obsessive

[00:55:46] and some are wacky

[00:55:48] but so often one of my things

[00:55:50] that I encourage people to do

[00:55:53] to put on the list of journaling

[00:55:55] and the little drawing exercise

[00:55:57] is taking a walk

[00:55:58] almost everybody

[00:56:00] before the 1950s for sure

[00:56:03] who were artistic in all the arts

[00:56:06] they all took walks purposefully

[00:56:09] on the walk they would contemplate

[00:56:11] and sometimes they were with a friend

[00:56:13] so the team could go for a walk

[00:56:15] however you work it

[00:56:16] and now we take a cart to a business park

[00:56:19] and sit in the box

[00:56:20] and wonder why we're not creative

[00:56:22] exactly

[00:56:24] very true

[00:56:25] so tomorrow I'm going to go to my business park

[00:56:27] and sit in that box

[00:56:28] and take that walk in the afternoon

[00:56:31] work on my widget

[00:56:32] and the next big thing

[00:56:34] any words of encouragement?

[00:56:36] am I going to be successful?

[00:56:37] success is a very interesting process

[00:56:40] but probably not

[00:56:42] thank you

[00:56:42] but that is one of the keys

[00:56:44] yeah, that's one of the keys

[00:56:46] to finding the widget

[00:56:48] is not finding the widget

[00:56:51] so there's a process of

[00:56:53] back to the marathon

[00:56:54] you want to run a marathon

[00:56:56] yes

[00:56:57] are you going to run it tomorrow?

[00:56:58] no

[00:56:59] are you going to start training?

[00:57:00] yes

[00:57:00] well then at some point

[00:57:03] within let's say the next year

[00:57:05] you will run 23 miles

[00:57:07] and that will be success

[00:57:09] but each of those

[00:57:11] quote unquote failures

[00:57:13] that you didn't run the marathon

[00:57:15] along the way

[00:57:16] is building to the marathon

[00:57:19] so in a way

[00:57:20] so look at it this way

[00:57:21] I watched a gentleman

[00:57:25] who investigates creativity

[00:57:27] very well known

[00:57:28] written lots of books

[00:57:29] very well respected

[00:57:31] but he said something

[00:57:32] super disturbing

[00:57:33] in a lecture

[00:57:34] I viewed

[00:57:35] that when Picasso was working

[00:57:38] on the sketches of

[00:57:41] for Guernica

[00:57:42] that he looked

[00:57:43] he said look at these

[00:57:44] he kept getting it wrong

[00:57:46] he kept getting it wrong

[00:57:47] every single time

[00:57:49] until he got it right

[00:57:51] and I knew instantly

[00:57:53] that this person doesn't draw

[00:57:55] and doesn't draw toward a goal

[00:57:58] right

[00:57:58] my interpretation of

[00:58:00] as being an artist

[00:58:01] and Picasso being an artist

[00:58:03] he had a sense

[00:58:05] he had the highest level

[00:58:07] he had an awareness

[00:58:08] in his spiritual field

[00:58:10] in his soul field

[00:58:12] of this piece of art

[00:58:14] that was 27

[00:58:16] that was 8 meters wide

[00:58:18] and 3 meters tall

[00:58:20] almost 4 meters tall

[00:58:21] that's a big vision

[00:58:23] right

[00:58:24] and he was making drawings

[00:58:27] that were leading him

[00:58:28] toward the vision

[00:58:30] so they weren't failures

[00:58:33] they were him

[00:58:34] feeling his way toward what he wanted

[00:58:37] which is exactly what you're doing

[00:58:38] with the widget

[00:58:40] is

[00:58:41] you don't know what it actually is

[00:58:43] but if you're testing

[00:58:44] all these little ideas

[00:58:46] those are leading you

[00:58:48] toward what the widget will actually be

[00:58:50] so they're not

[00:58:51] I don't believe that they're failures

[00:58:53] and in drawing

[00:58:55] or in painting

[00:58:56] in drawing I can just

[00:58:58] rip up the paper and toss it

[00:58:59] in the painting

[00:59:00] I can literally take my solvent

[00:59:02] and wash away the sketch

[00:59:04] that I started

[00:59:05] so

[00:59:06] I don't feel like that's a failure

[00:59:08] it's just that I haven't found

[00:59:10] the sweet spot

[00:59:12] of what I know and feel is

[00:59:15] the best

[00:59:16] that I can do

[00:59:17] that big light bulb has not

[00:59:19] has not gone on yet

[00:59:20] right

[00:59:21] and sometimes that light bulb

[00:59:24] the big light bulb

[00:59:25] means that every day

[00:59:27] you turn up

[00:59:29] the amount of power

[00:59:30] that is going into the light bulb

[00:59:31] slowly

[00:59:32] like training for the marathon

[00:59:34] and

[00:59:35] a week or

[00:59:36] a month or six months later

[00:59:38] it's like oh my god

[00:59:39] the light is fully on

[00:59:40] I have

[00:59:41] I have the widget

[00:59:42] how did it go for you

[00:59:44] because I understand

[00:59:45] that you

[00:59:46] created a masterpiece yourself too

[00:59:49] well

[00:59:50] it's very

[00:59:51] kind

[00:59:52] and generous words

[00:59:53] that's your words so

[00:59:58] and that's from words of others

[01:00:01] so it's

[01:00:02] a master work

[01:00:04] I can say for sure

[01:00:05] that it's

[01:00:06] it's something that I

[01:00:08] was able to do

[01:00:09] through a lot

[01:00:11] of foundation building

[01:00:13] and work toward a goal that

[01:00:15] I worked on it

[01:00:16] for quite a few years

[01:00:17] and nothing was happening

[01:00:19] and then

[01:00:21] eventually

[01:00:22] through life experience

[01:00:24] which is what I believe

[01:00:26] is part of also the foundation

[01:00:29] of great art

[01:00:30] but also great business

[01:00:32] and great business ideas

[01:00:33] great widgets is that

[01:00:35] we put our life experience

[01:00:37] into it

[01:00:38] it can't be separate

[01:00:40] there's a big process in

[01:00:42] science right now that

[01:00:44] more people are

[01:00:46] allowing themselves to be

[01:00:47] in the process rather than

[01:00:49] to be completely separate

[01:00:51] and cold

[01:00:52] part of that is

[01:00:53] scientists who

[01:00:55] also have a creative process

[01:00:57] are very aware of that

[01:00:59] if we take that

[01:01:00] those life experiences

[01:01:02] that are sometimes challenging

[01:01:04] and difficult

[01:01:05] and there are struggles

[01:01:06] if we take those out

[01:01:08] then I'm left with art

[01:01:09] that is

[01:01:10] one-dimensional

[01:01:11] right

[01:01:12] and again as hard

[01:01:14] as it is to

[01:01:15] to conceptualize

[01:01:17] if we take out that

[01:01:19] emotional quality

[01:01:20] from our business process

[01:01:23] then our businesses

[01:01:24] become a kind of one-dimensional

[01:01:27] low level widget

[01:01:28] yeah

[01:01:28] yeah so not only pay attention

[01:01:30] to the highlights in life

[01:01:31] but also to the

[01:01:33] the sorrow and

[01:01:35] and the depression

[01:01:36] that we also experience

[01:01:37] in life

[01:01:37] and let that also be part of

[01:01:39] your substrate

[01:01:40] and your foundation

[01:01:41] absolutely

[01:01:42] it's also nourishment to that

[01:01:44] Patrick, this has been an

[01:01:45] absolute delight

[01:01:46] to chat with you

[01:01:47] I learned so much

[01:01:48] in the days that I studied

[01:01:49] your work

[01:01:50] and you as a person

[01:01:53] just to summarize what I

[01:01:54] I'm so happy for it

[01:01:55] yeah

[01:01:56] it's your perspective

[01:01:59] just from the artistic

[01:02:00] creative

[01:02:01] but also still making

[01:02:03] the connection with the

[01:02:03] business has been invaluable

[01:02:06] the lesson for me

[01:02:07] is those four layers

[01:02:08] of your substrate

[01:02:10] know the physical

[01:02:11] the emotional

[01:02:12] all the way to the spiritual

[01:02:14] and keep working on that

[01:02:15] and don't expect that

[01:02:18] if you want to be creative

[01:02:19] on the spot

[01:02:20] that's going to happen

[01:02:20] if you don't have that

[01:02:21] substrate

[01:02:22] you need to have that

[01:02:23] foundation

[01:02:24] just like you need to have

[01:02:25] the endurance

[01:02:26] when you want to run a

[01:02:27] marathon

[01:02:28] thank you very much

[01:02:29] I hope you enjoyed this

[01:02:30] interview as well

[01:02:31] it was a fabulous

[01:02:32] interview for an

[01:02:33] great thoughtful questions

[01:02:36] and spontaneity

[01:02:37] and surprises

[01:02:39] which makes it

[01:02:39] a great interview

[01:02:41] yeah that is one thing

[01:02:42] that we learned as well

[01:02:43] in this interview

[01:02:44] that you need to have

[01:02:45] those surprises

[01:02:46] those unexpected inputs

[01:02:49] that will enrich

[01:02:50] your substrate

[01:02:51] absolutely

[01:02:52] well thank you very much

[01:02:53] next time I'm in

[01:02:55] I'm in Nebraska

[01:02:56] will definitely

[01:02:57] hit you up

[01:02:58] and look forward

[01:03:00] to seeing you then again

[01:03:01] thank you

[01:03:02] looking forward to that

[01:03:04] also thank you so much

[01:03:05] Florian

[01:03:07] and there you have it

[01:03:08] another inspiring episode

[01:03:10] of the ideate with

[01:03:11] Florian podcast

[01:03:12] as always

[01:03:13] I encourage you to visit

[01:03:14] our website at ideate

[01:03:15] with Florian.com

[01:03:17] that is

[01:03:17] ide8

[01:03:18] with Florian.com

[01:03:21] here you will find links

[01:03:22] related to this episode

[01:03:24] as well as other episodes

[01:03:25] my name is Florian Horna

[01:03:27] and I hope the story inspired you

[01:03:29] thank you for joining me

[01:03:30] and until next time