S02E02 – The Forward Obsessed Founder with Pete Sena

[00:00:00] Hallo Dreamers, tinkers en duizenden, welkom bij Ideate Florian. In dit moment we discoverer

[00:00:11] we goed ideas kom van, wether het voor een nieuwe feature product of company. Ik ben

[00:00:16] je hos Florian Hoornaar. Voor over 25 jaar werk ik met kleine en medium-sized

[00:00:21] companies in engineering, sales en management. Durant de tijd ik

[00:00:25] connecteelde met veel professionele zeiden te groen. Dat makes me

[00:00:28] excited to explore the journeys of our guest with you. So let's dive in.

[00:00:33] Episode 2 The Forward Obsessed Founder with Pete Cena In this episode of the

[00:00:39] Ideated Florian podcast we're joined by Pete Cena, founder of several

[00:00:43] companies and a so-called Forward Obsessed Founder. We discuss the intersection

[00:00:49] of creativity and business and how fascinating it is how this all comes

[00:00:53] together. Pete shares practical investor criteria like network effects

[00:00:57] and market arbiters, learnt from his own experience and mistakes and he

[00:01:01] emphasises the importance of singular focus in all kinds of businesses. We

[00:01:05] also discuss how Pete encourages breaking free from norms and how we like to

[00:01:10] find value in combining different elements. The conversation ends with a call

[00:01:14] for self-awareness through the zone of genius. Listen to discover innovations

[00:01:19] in entrepreneurship, creativity and business strategies with Pete.

[00:01:26] Pete, welcome to the show. It's great to be here thanks for having me. I did a

[00:01:31] little bit of research on you not in the creepy way but in an obsessed way.

[00:01:35] A positively obsessed way and I found out that you are the Forward Obsessed

[00:01:41] Founder. We definitely cannot talk about that as well. One thing that I found

[00:01:45] with you is that you are incredibly curious. You have a curiosity that seems

[00:01:50] unlimited. Yeah, it gets people exhausted at times.

[00:01:53] Ah!

[00:01:55] Yeah, I think that you and I share that in common. You name yourself the Forward

[00:02:00] Obsessed Founder so that means that you are an entrepreneur and you are the

[00:02:04] founder of not only one company but a couple of companies I believe. Yes, I

[00:02:08] am, I guess the dictionary calls that a serial entrepreneur but I don't call

[00:02:13] myself as a serial entrepreneur. So for you, what's the obsession where does

[00:02:17] that come from? So for me, I just love being creative. And for me, creativity and

[00:02:23] business have always just came together for me in a special place so I love

[00:02:28] living at the intersection of people, design, tech and just how all those

[00:02:32] things work together. I just find it fascinating and ultimately that's what I

[00:02:36] think drew me to go on to start my first business and then when I started to

[00:02:42] build that business up, I had other curiosities. I had other things I wanted

[00:02:45] to work on. I also think that a lot of my friends are entrepreneurs as well,

[00:02:48] big surprise and a lot of us have this ADHD kind of shiny object syndrome if

[00:02:55] you will. And I think for me it's that curiosity that I think keeps me wanting

[00:03:00] to continue to consume and build but then also like as I've got an older and

[00:03:04] as I've built more businesses what I've realized is that one business can't

[00:03:08] give you everything you need and want when you have that insatiable appetite

[00:03:13] for different types of businesses. And actually, it's better from a structural

[00:03:16] perspective sometimes whether it's financial structure team structure or even

[00:03:20] just focus to be able to create businesses that are really exists to do one

[00:03:24] thing. One of the things I say now is when I invest in businesses that do a

[00:03:27] lot of angel investment is I look for three things as an investor. I look

[00:03:31] for businesses that have network effects. I look for businesses that have

[00:03:34] marketplace arbitrage and I look for things that have limited customization

[00:03:38] keyword limited. You might be like, oh, Pete that's an interesting three things

[00:03:41] like what made you come up with that besides like a fancy book or something. And

[00:03:45] the short answer is I've just made a million mistakes over the years and what

[00:03:48] I did with my first business was I was like, okay it was a service business

[00:03:51] that was a digital agency so just to simplify it started a company in my dorm

[00:03:55] room we did design development services. So mostly websites and apps and stuff

[00:03:59] like that. I don't want to over glorify it. And one of the things I realized

[00:04:02] with that was when you're in the agency business the service business the only

[00:04:06] way you scale that company is by adding more people. So then you're adding

[00:04:10] more revenue but then in order to keep up with it you have to add more expenses.

[00:04:13] That's the nature of a service business in general unlike a software as a

[00:04:16] service business which scales much better, much better economic. So in doing

[00:04:21] that I didn't have any network effects that were really sort of being able

[00:04:24] to permeate. By network effects I mean by virtue of doing one thing another

[00:04:28] thing happens right? So then as a result of it I didn't have two-sided marketplace

[00:04:32] right we think about marketplaces like Uber Amazon these are the ones that

[00:04:35] everyone knows about but you can do marketplaces on a much smaller thing. And

[00:04:38] then as an agency when your client says hey you know can you get me an ice

[00:04:42] coffee? Before you know it you start making ice coffee right and I'm being

[00:04:45] facetious a bit. So then you end up getting into like hypercustomization

[00:04:49] which means that scaling it training your people becomes very difficult. And

[00:04:53] I have lots of friends who are in agencies you know some are you know two

[00:04:56] people, some are two thousand people so it seems like it's a consistent

[00:04:59] thing. So what I said when I started to get into a place in my life where I could

[00:05:02] invest in new businesses is I wanted to create a thesis as to how I looked at

[00:05:06] set of principles. So now when I invest in companies I'm investing in companies

[00:05:10] that by definition have a singular focus, a singular purpose and then they

[00:05:16] can limit the scope of how they deliver on that purpose by not being

[00:05:19] unfocused. And one of the things I think I learned over the years is that being

[00:05:23] unfocused is a big deterrent to reaching your goals and aspirations so I hope

[00:05:30] that's helpful. That's not very logical. And how do you combine it then with I

[00:05:34] mean you mentioned the term ADAD? That seems very much to not combine with

[00:05:39] having a singular focus, right? Yeah so it's interesting because I've talked

[00:05:45] to a lot of people who you know there's different terms that we use today

[00:05:48] you know terms like neurodivergent or ADHD some people are saying just

[00:05:52] because we live in the distraction economy everyone has the tendencies I

[00:05:55] did tests for the stuff back in the day so I know it's not just shiny

[00:05:59] objects syndrome but in all seriousness I think what's what I've noticed about

[00:06:04] that tendency is there's patterns in the tendency, right? So to be specific when

[00:06:11] you have ADHD you're easily distracted but also like when you find a way

[00:06:16] to learn that works for you you can go all in on that. So I think a lot of times

[00:06:20] for me the distraction is bringing me closer to creativity because I believe

[00:06:25] creativity is just connecting things right it's you know I think Steve Jopp famously

[00:06:28] said creativity is just making uncommon connections or something I fret the

[00:06:33] exact words he used but I remember him saying it years ago back when he was

[00:06:37] live but but kind of going back it's like when you look at the spiders web

[00:06:40] you can and you zoom out and zoom in you can start to see the interconnections

[00:06:43] and that's where creativity happens right that's where the remix happens and those

[00:06:46] kinds of things happen. So I think that you can look at that as a distraction

[00:06:50] or you can look at that as a superpower and if you're trying to sort of be laser

[00:06:54] focus on only one thing it can be very difficult in some cases so I'm just

[00:06:58] sort of speaking for my truth and my experience I mean obviously it's

[00:07:00] different for everyone but I like to sort of use what some people might say is

[00:07:04] a weakness for me I think is a strength. Right so what I hear say as well that

[00:07:08] creativity and that shiny object you know tracing the shiny object all the

[00:07:14] time that is leads to creating a lot of IDs but then at one point you have

[00:07:19] to choose and say okay this is the idea I'm gonna focus on my energy and this is

[00:07:23] what I'm gonna build the company around yes and if I then have a second ID

[00:07:26] I'm going to build a separate company around that is that yeah well in some

[00:07:31] cases right so I think sometimes things complement one another sometimes they

[00:07:35] can compete with one another so you know good example is early on we used to

[00:07:42] do a lot of software application development and what we realized was that our

[00:07:46] core differentiator was really our thinking UI UX and the sort of front-end

[00:07:53] aspect of it more than the enterprise you know ERP integration side I think so

[00:08:00] I didn't really there it's like you have to figure out then like so what does

[00:08:03] the CEO do at that point you either build that capability by that capability

[00:08:08] and by buy I mean people platform talent you know whatever or you partner

[00:08:13] and I think that all of which can be successful but they all come with

[00:08:16] different trade-offs so I think that when you're trying to do everything

[00:08:19] when you're everything to everyone you're nothing to know on yeah and that's

[00:08:22] where I think things get really diluted and and it made a lot of those mistakes

[00:08:25] over over my career and I think that what I've realized now is clarity and

[00:08:30] focus is a superpower and just because it's not my superpower doesn't mean

[00:08:34] that I can't go and find people who have that as a super ride right right at the

[00:08:37] magic I think of leadership versus like looking at yourself in the mirror and

[00:08:41] saying okay I'm I am not this but I am this and I think you need that in an

[00:08:45] organization and and I'm really blessed in that I fairly recently in the past

[00:08:49] couple of years brought someone into really help with that and I think that we've

[00:08:52] we've started to already see the benefits of that in very big ways because

[00:08:56] I've got people now that are very strong where I'm weak and I'm very strong

[00:09:01] where they might have that deficiency or not be be great at that so I think

[00:09:04] that complimentary but competing skillsets is also helpful and then let's go

[00:09:09] back to like you forward obsessed that does mean to be forward obsessed so I

[00:09:13] think what it means before obsessed is for me it's a mantra so the reason I

[00:09:16] call myself the forward obsessed founder is that a lot of my clients are

[00:09:19] founders and CEOs and what I try to do is I try to walk the talk right there's

[00:09:25] a lot of people out there who are like gurus and coaches and everything they've

[00:09:28] never been in the shoes I've built a couple of different businesses I've

[00:09:31] been a part of a lot of businesses so I only come from a place of if I'm

[00:09:35] going to give you a framework it's a framework that I've personally used I've

[00:09:38] watched success because that's the experience I can bring to the table right

[00:09:42] versus like going in a book and saying this is somebody else's framework I've

[00:09:45] never tried it I can't speak to the data on it wherever so to that end

[00:09:49] for obsessed for me is it's about continuously innovating and iterating

[00:09:53] and experimenting knowing that everything is always changing right change is

[00:09:58] the only constant so for me what that means is being a student for life

[00:10:02] right constantly practicing curiosity creativity in all aspects of my life

[00:10:06] right I can go into details on all this if you want what that means about being

[00:10:10] for obsessed is like constantly learning but also unlearning right like what

[00:10:14] something I learned ten years ago that's no longer serving me today because

[00:10:17] the world has changed or I've changed or the problem has changed so I think

[00:10:21] being for obsessed means dedicating a growth mindset to all the work I do and

[00:10:27] understanding that that is going to continuously need to evolve and change and

[00:10:32] that sounds probably pretty obvious to someone like you Florian who's pretty

[00:10:35] creative but a lot of people I think don't apply that right they're like okay

[00:10:40] well this is how I've always done it so I'm going to keep doing it because getting

[00:10:43] me to this level has worked right yeah it's not now with somebody recently

[00:10:46] they're an engineer and I know you're an engineer yourself so we were talking

[00:10:50] and I said well how much are you using AI and large language models in developing

[00:10:55] software right now and he's like oh those LLM's they just produce crappy code

[00:10:59] and I said okay well let's do let's do an experiment we didn't experiment

[00:11:02] together and it was actually using GitHub co-pilot and I basically said okay

[00:11:06] you let's write this piece of software let's let's it is a react app okay just

[00:11:11] to get specific let's write a react app that just you know calls this API

[00:11:15] gets this result set back and then you know outputs it into this interface right

[00:11:20] okay we're gonna build it we're side by side we're sitting together with the

[00:11:22] laptops and how would you do it and he walks me through it and he's like yeah

[00:11:26] well this will take X amount of time by the way so here's how I would do it so

[00:11:30] we both try to work with the AI and he's like see it doesn't work doesn't

[00:11:33] know this library or so I was like no watch this and then I did a really

[00:11:37] specific prompt you know I want you to use this library I want you to do

[00:11:40] this use this npm package blah blah blah and I basically wrote the code in

[00:11:45] well the computer wrote the code I just wrote the prompt for it but and then

[00:11:48] I had to change like three or four things but the point I tell you that not

[00:11:51] to get in the weeds for the audience that might not be you nerds like us but

[00:11:54] I say that because if you think about an engineer the greatest engineers

[00:11:58] that I know spend most of their time defining the problem and how they're

[00:12:02] gonna solve it and then a little bit of time writing the code because they

[00:12:05] write the code faster mediocre engineers or mediocre problem solvers you

[00:12:09] know just jump right into it and they just kind of like hack their way to the

[00:12:13] solution I'm not saying one is right or wrong but my point is had we not been

[00:12:16] forward obsessed with that way a year from now two years from now the next

[00:12:20] software engineers that are going to change the world they're not gonna ever

[00:12:24] know a time where they start from a blank IDE and there's not some kind of

[00:12:29] an assisted LLM or something in their workflow it's just not gonna happen

[00:12:32] right so I use that as an example because if I wasn't forward obsessed

[00:12:36] there's a lot of organizations out there that are not upskilling that are not

[00:12:40] changing the way that they work and I made that software example just

[00:12:42] for you because you know you've got a background software right yeah it makes

[00:12:45] sense to me yeah you always have to be looking forward like what how can I get

[00:12:48] better I'm at my job how can I solve this problem better and it doesn't really

[00:12:52] matter if you write software or do something else it's a mindset of not being

[00:12:56] satisfied to go to status quo and people I think one of the things I say to

[00:12:59] people a lot is like faster better cheaper right like everything's about

[00:13:03] faster better cheaper and I think people sometimes get get frustrated when

[00:13:07] they hear that because they think it's like a personal attack on them but I

[00:13:10] think my good example is like faster better cheaper cell phones right faster

[00:13:15] better cheaper hard drives right there was a time this hard drive was four

[00:13:18] terabytes there was a time this thing would cost like five thousand dollars

[00:13:21] right now you can get this for like seventy five dollars on Amazon right so

[00:13:25] faster better cheaper right it's faster to produce and get it out in the

[00:13:28] market it's less expensive right and it's better right in a lot of ways so I

[00:13:33] think that we have to evolve the same way that we expect our products and our

[00:13:37] services to evolve which is faster better cheaper and then the only way to do

[00:13:40] that is to be forward obsessed and to have that in sessionable appetite where

[00:13:44] you're never satisfied with how you approach something and there's always an

[00:13:49] opportunity to approach it with more skill or more craft or more rigor or

[00:13:53] more speed so when I say for it obsessed that's what I mean so when I try to

[00:13:56] practice Florian with with the work that I do with the newsletter that I

[00:14:00] write with all these things is let me show the audience all the things that

[00:14:04] I'm learning that are working all the things that are not working for me

[00:14:07] let me just put my mistakes out there my my successes out there because no

[00:14:11] different than Edison and a lab doing thousands of experiments before the

[00:14:15] light bulb happens it's producing that content in building in public and

[00:14:19] building in the open that I think makes for a forward obsessed founder and I

[00:14:23] think that the next era of founders I believe are going to be emotionally

[00:14:27] intelligent they're going to be experimentation heavy and they're going to

[00:14:31] really foster cultures of innovation and you can't have a culture of

[00:14:34] innovation without failure and experimentation failure has to happen in order

[00:14:38] for you to grow to pick up a skill to innovate a product of service whatever

[00:14:42] it is and I think that's so obvious to people like you and me right it's so

[00:14:45] obvious maybe to you listening in the audience but I see so many companies that

[00:14:49] do not get that right and then they wonder well why can't we innovate and I

[00:14:53] get you know what some of my clients are Fortune 500 clients and they bring us

[00:14:56] in and they're like Pete how is it you and your team could do a half day

[00:14:59] workshop and our teams just change the way we think and it's like all we're doing

[00:15:03] is it's giving exposure to a new way to work for your team and then

[00:15:08] magically they're like this is fun this is successful let's do this so

[00:15:12] nothing we're doing is brilliant here it's just we're just looking at it a

[00:15:15] little bit differently so I hope that's helpful yeah that's very helpful and

[00:15:18] it's interesting that I can correlate with the other interviews I've done

[00:15:21] so far this season where the word permission came up a few times you have to

[00:15:25] give yourself permission to fill and give yourself permission to be creative

[00:15:30] and look at things different ways so that totally resonates so I think so

[00:15:37] far we've got a good image of who you are as a forward obsessed founder

[00:15:41] what you can bring to the table I want to bring this a little bit back to

[00:15:45] like the Genesis of digital surgeons and your company just in a nutshell

[00:15:51] where do you come from in the beginning it was just me I was a designer

[00:15:55] coder nerd and still am to this day and ultimately I was getting hired by

[00:16:00] people to go in and fix their digital problems right so in the beginning days

[00:16:05] that was how do you do marketing on the internet right we just happen to

[00:16:08] call it digital now digital like oxygen we all breathe it so in the beginning

[00:16:12] I was the digital surgeon I was getting brought in to fix somebody's broken

[00:16:15] code or launch a new feature or build this thing in a product or whatever it

[00:16:19] was and ultimately that's how it started and then my dream was I just wanted

[00:16:24] to make cool shit for the internet and that was just me as a young kid in my

[00:16:28] college dorm room at Yukon University Connecticut excuse me and I did something

[00:16:33] that was very different back then I didn't realize was different and I

[00:16:35] learned this from my dad which is when you say you're going to do something

[00:16:38] do it that makes sense it makes super sense right but I had met a lot of

[00:16:42] people who they said they would do something and they didn't do it so back

[00:16:45] then I was a kid and I told my boss or my client or whatever it was at the

[00:16:49] time because it was different I had freelancing and a job and the whole

[00:16:52] thing I said hey can you build this thing and I built it we launched it and

[00:16:57] it got a lot of eyeballs on it got a lot traffic and it helped people make

[00:16:59] money and I was like oh wait a minute so I can click on these pixels and write

[00:17:03] these lines of source code and now I'm helping businesses grow and I started

[00:17:06] scratching my head saying hmm this business stuff sounds kind of interesting

[00:17:09] and then the cooler the stuff we put on the internet you know at the time a

[00:17:13] lot of interactive animated stuff on the internet flash was still cool back

[00:17:16] then you know be now it's just all scripted up

[00:17:20] long time ago no 100% the light hides the gray right I know I know I've got

[00:17:26] the same highlight so yeah yeah amen right so so then before you know it

[00:17:30] there was more work than I had I could handle so I hired a developer you

[00:17:34] know a friend of mine and there's more work than I could handle and then I

[00:17:37] hired a designer and there's more work than I can handle and then I brought on

[00:17:41] a co-founder who was really really talented with business development sales

[00:17:45] and I think what I learned from him back then was sales as the lifeblood of

[00:17:48] any organization if you can't get customers then ultimately you have a very

[00:17:53] big problem so from that point we just started adding and adding and adding and

[00:17:56] then you know fast forward 20 years now DS has become DS is sort of what we

[00:18:02] call digital search for short now DS has become a company that's helping

[00:18:07] people transform their brands you know we're helping CMOs and founders

[00:18:11] create attractive foundations for their brand wherever the brand exists and

[00:18:15] it happens to primarily live in digital channels whether it's social or

[00:18:19] sites or apps or customer experiences so that's how we've evolved over time and

[00:18:23] now companies come to us and they say okay digital surgeons help us tell our

[00:18:27] story help us finding connect with our customers and help us build our business

[00:18:31] in our brand and that's what we've evolved into and I consider myself really

[00:18:35] blessed to be have a privilege and the opportunity to work with some

[00:18:38] credible and amazing brands and clients and some incredible amazing teams you

[00:18:43] know across the world and that's how the times evolved and I think now DS is

[00:18:47] just one of my businesses I have a fantastic leadership team that's running

[00:18:51] that business on the day to day and we continue to grow and that's allowed

[00:18:55] me with my ADHD to find other opportunities to find you know most recently

[00:19:00] we launched a video production studio because we realized a lot of our clients

[00:19:04] needed more content so I launched this video photo production studio and had

[00:19:09] one of the employees in our core company spin out and run that now so I think

[00:19:13] ultimately what I'm looking to build now is a creative platform that helps

[00:19:18] people build businesses through the different lenses that people need for

[00:19:22] their business whether that be creative marketing branding recruiting other

[00:19:28] services that go into building and growing a company and now I'm trying to

[00:19:31] create small independent hub and spoke businesses that all connect to one

[00:19:37] another and that could add multiple points of value to these organizations.

[00:19:41] Is that a district is it's a great question so district is districts the

[00:19:45] malgamation of an idea that my co-founder and I had years ago which was how can

[00:19:50] we bring together like in diverse minded people from different disciplines

[00:19:54] and industries and have them all working under one roof so the original idea

[00:19:58] was being in Connecticut was not like being in New York or Silicon Valley

[00:20:01] back in the day and we would look at each other and say well why is it I could go

[00:20:04] to New York and in Brooklyn there was like a cool coffee shop that had like a

[00:20:08] designer and if I threw my cup of coffee it would hit a designer an engineer

[00:20:12] an architect a photographer I'm like why didn't that exist in here in Connecticut

[00:20:17] and he and I were going back and forth and at the time we didn't know about this

[00:20:21] co-working thing this was sort of before we work got cool and all that and we

[00:20:24] had this idea we didn't really do much with it you know we were two just broke

[00:20:27] young guys and then through my partner's genius because he's just a kind of guy

[00:20:31] who can just figure anything out in the real world and I can figure anything out

[00:20:34] in the digital world so together we're pretty dangerous and we figured out a way

[00:20:38] to basically buy an abandoned bus depot and turn it into a tech innovation

[00:20:43] campus so what district is to answer your question is district is a tech

[00:20:48] innovation in entrepreneurship epicenter where we bring people together and

[00:20:52] give them a place to work a place to connect the place to have community and

[00:20:55] create those creative collisions so on the campus we've got the largest

[00:20:59] venture capital group in the state of Connecticut on our campus we've got a

[00:21:02] photo video studio on our campus we've got a co-working facility unlike we

[00:21:06] work which leases the property we own the property which means we can control

[00:21:10] every aspect about the customer journey from how people check in down to

[00:21:14] how they connect with each other and all the events that are on the campus so

[00:21:17] yes to answer your question that's what district became and now as a result of

[00:21:21] it it's created a flywheel it's created an energy it's created a community

[00:21:25] that allows us to force multiply these ideas that we have and now new ideas

[00:21:31] are being kind of sparked and bred as a result of it you know my my original

[00:21:35] co-founder is now expanding into cannabis and technology in new different

[00:21:40] ventures that have nothing to do with branding and marketing but because we

[00:21:44] have that branding marketing superpower we're able to apply that to all

[00:21:48] these subsequent subsidiary businesses that are interconnected so I hope

[00:21:52] that answers your question for you yes absolutely my geography is a little

[00:21:56] bit rusty but I believe you're very close to New York City so we're about an hour

[00:22:00] and a half from New York City okay where we're located right now is a mile down

[00:22:04] the road from Yale University so you might be familiar with those guys just

[00:22:08] popular university Ivy League but yeah so that's where we're at and New Haven

[00:22:11] is directly between New York City and Boston so it's a little over two and a half

[00:22:16] hour drive to Boston from where I'm sitting right now on my campus and I can

[00:22:19] get to New York City right now depending on the traffic in about an hour and

[00:22:22] half either by train or by car and effectively during the middle of those big

[00:22:25] cities is it's a benefit or how would your business have evolved if you were

[00:22:30] in New York City instead of just outside the city it's a great question and I

[00:22:35] think if I tried to answer it now it would just be speculation right so what

[00:22:39] I would say is early in my career my so my co-founder is actually from New York

[00:22:42] City and in the early days a lot of our clients were based in New York and a

[00:22:47] lot of our clients are still based in New York the nice thing about the world

[00:22:51] we live in today is it's a bit of a boundaryless world now as a result of

[00:22:54] the post-COVID era but what I would say is we've always worked with clients all

[00:22:58] over the world since the beginnings 20 years ago so I can't speculate you

[00:23:02] know again it'd be like saying well what if I open my business in South Africa

[00:23:05] well I don't know maybe it would have been different but yeah yeah no I'm

[00:23:08] super happy with that I think what was a catalyst for me that I can only

[00:23:11] speak to just my own experiences I think we attracted a different group of

[00:23:15] people as a result of where we're at and I think that because there wasn't

[00:23:20] so much like in New York City right you could throw a rock and hit 10

[00:23:24] agencies you could throw a rock and I was using a metaphor I'm not

[00:23:28] trying to throw rocks at people but you know what I mean like the cluster

[00:23:32] intensity of talent in high cities is there right so I think what what New

[00:23:36] Haven did for us was it gave us an urban grit that was important right New

[00:23:40] Haven's like a like a mini city kind of like Brooklyn a lot of charm a lot

[00:23:44] a lot of character a lot of culture here but it created challenges right like

[00:23:48] if I'm in New York I could just spin up a meetup and 10 people show up that

[00:23:52] have the capability but then you're also competing with the Google's the

[00:23:55] Facebook's that you know the biggest companies in the world which we always

[00:23:58] have and we always will I think what's different is my partner and I have

[00:24:02] always figured out how to do more with less I think that when you can do more

[00:24:06] with less you know both of us grew up pretty modest means you know none of us

[00:24:10] got grew up with a silver spoon in our mouths you know we didn't have you

[00:24:13] know obviously I had privilege he's the son of an immigrant so he didn't

[00:24:16] have as much privileges as I had but it's a long way of saying that I think

[00:24:21] that not having a lot of money and not having direct access to the same kind

[00:24:26] of talent that the major metros have New York Silicon Valley California

[00:24:30] London England these epicenters have a lot more density of talent in it was

[00:24:35] harder for us to access those in the early years so what I think it developed

[00:24:40] over the years for us was a deep desire to do more with less and I think

[00:24:45] that resilience ultimately is what kept us forward obsessed over the years

[00:24:50] and I can't tell you what it would have been like if we went a different route

[00:24:53] because that would just be speculation but what I can tell you I definitely feel

[00:24:57] like I took away by being in a small city with a big heart here in New

[00:25:00] Haven is what it really means to work hard to achieve your hopes and dreams

[00:25:07] and not to say that people are different in different regions but I hope that

[00:25:11] tracks that's only that's my story that's the only thing I can share yeah once

[00:25:14] you you start that way that's also how you probably end that way and I mean

[00:25:18] starting is as in the start of your career and ending is at the end of the

[00:25:21] career and building the companies in between that you are still dead in that

[00:25:26] company right so don't be don't be satisfied work hard and as you said do

[00:25:30] more with less

[00:25:38] the future of work is flexible if you are being mandated to return to the office

[00:25:45] fear not there are things that you can do to create flexibility for yourself

[00:25:51] and there are things that you can do to prepare for the inevitable flexibility

[00:25:56] that is coming your way collaboration superpowers helps people and companies

[00:26:01] work better together from anywhere and we've got a free remote working success

[00:26:07] kit to get you started from personal user manuals to team agreements

[00:26:11] virtual icebreakers and more download the remote working success kit at

[00:26:17] collaboration superpowers dot com we'll see you online

[00:26:24] with setting up districts and creating companies that are similar to the

[00:26:29] complimentary in an interview that I watch from you you use the word adjacencies

[00:26:34] and you said I believe in this thing called and this despairing connections

[00:26:38] can you talk a little bit about that just for the audience that might not have

[00:26:42] checked out that same interview what I would say is all my life people have tried

[00:26:46] to label me and put me in a box and I think that you yourself audience might be

[00:26:51] feeling like someone's trying to put you in a box and what I mean by that in

[00:26:55] my early career was like Pete you're going to be a developer or you're going

[00:26:58] to be a designer or you're going to be this and I didn't like or I liked

[00:27:02] and you know I was a really kind of shy scrawny kid was very introverted

[00:27:07] and I didn't want to just settle for one thing and I also didn't want to bounce

[00:27:12] from job to job the job because I think one of the problems bouncing from job

[00:27:15] the job is that you never get to go past that depth point where you really

[00:27:20] get the value right because there's that sort of like awkward you know clumsy

[00:27:24] year or two but then you start to crack into like really that the where the

[00:27:28] cheat code's happened where the growth really happens so for me when I say

[00:27:31] and it's I can be a designer and a developer and an entrepreneur and a

[00:27:37] father and a good friend I don't have to choose being one or the other and I

[00:27:42] think nowadays that the beauty of choice in the way we live our lives is that

[00:27:47] we don't have to just follow the rulebook that someone's given us you know we

[00:27:51] all have agency on our own life to be able to make those decisions and for me

[00:27:55] that principle of and you know you can't see because it's off camera but I

[00:27:58] I've got a lot of ampersands throughout my life and and the ampersand for me

[00:28:02] represents a couple different things one it represents collaboration you often

[00:28:05] when you see an ampersand used it's you know Pete ampersand Florian right and

[00:28:10] it symbolizes a interconnection so I could say Pete AMD Florian or I could

[00:28:15] say Pete ampersand Florian typically if you look at history when the ampersand

[00:28:19] was used it often referenced collaborations between different entities

[00:28:22] and for me collaboration interconnectivity is where the magic happens so

[00:28:28] as to your question about adjacencies I believe that when you take things

[00:28:32] that are similar like adjacency meaning like the line right so like you have a

[00:28:37] category here you have a category here what's the line often those lines you

[00:28:42] know whether it's the line on a seam or two things just you know disconnect the

[00:28:47] adjacency if you will or the adjacency of a category it's that line that is a

[00:28:52] really magic thing if you dig deeper into it and it's I believe that when

[00:28:56] you connect different things together uncommon connections happen and my

[00:29:00] favorite example just the audience might be like okay what is this guy talking

[00:29:03] about is like take your favorite music right if you look at the top top 40

[00:29:07] you know music right now it's a blend of different genres from different

[00:29:11] people from different backgrounds you know 10 years ago you'd never hear

[00:29:14] rap music and dance music together but now all you hear is rap and dance music

[00:29:18] together right music and for the older folks if you combine opera a rock

[00:29:23] you get queen right there you go yeah 100% right but but what that does for us is

[00:29:28] that creates novelty and novelty in the brain then create you know unlocks do

[00:29:33] up a mean in all these different feel good chemicals right so the reason why

[00:29:36] like I consider myself a designer in my life right where and you see the

[00:29:40] products that have behind me they're all well designed they'll have interesting

[00:29:44] stories to them so when I talk about how to find adjacencies what I always like

[00:29:47] to look at is find the friction right so find the unmet need that people have

[00:29:52] and the way to do that is just pay attention listen you know listen to what

[00:29:56] people love listen to what people hate listen to the discourse watch where

[00:30:00] people get confused or frustrated it could be like if you're out in public it

[00:30:03] could be trolling Reddit scraping review sites whatever you want to do

[00:30:08] that's where those adjacencies start to pop up and a good example of adjacencies

[00:30:12] as I found that like every year we were continuously being asked to do all

[00:30:17] this video concept and we could have just hired people internally to do

[00:30:21] that work we could have hired contractors to do that work or hired other

[00:30:25] companies but what I realized was it wasn't that we needed just another video

[00:30:27] thing it was that there was a deep need in the community to be able to do

[00:30:32] storytelling that happened to be video so when I realize is that that adjacency

[00:30:36] between video and digital wasn't just about making videos wasn't just about

[00:30:39] making digital things it's about how do you bring those two things together

[00:30:41] right so that's where combining technology with combining ability to

[00:30:46] capture content magical things start to happen right so when you think about

[00:30:49] the adjacency at scale of what that means look at Vimeo look at YouTube right

[00:30:55] very successful companies and all they did is they combine two separate

[00:30:59] things videos been around for a hundred years or 60 years right the

[00:31:03] internet has been around for a long time smashing those two things together

[00:31:06] and creating a portable player now you have YouTube now you have Vimeo now

[00:31:10] you have tools like this so when I say adjacencies that's what I mean by it's

[00:31:13] it's combining different things that don't naturally overlap and

[00:31:17] understanding that when they do overlap new magic things start to emerge from

[00:31:22] that yeah that makes a lot of sense it also reminds me of a growth from Lucien

[00:31:26] Berm is a chairman of the the startup association and I interviewed him for

[00:31:30] the last season he says that that human needs will always be the same if you look

[00:31:35] at like the basic human needs that we have that our parents had that grandparents

[00:31:39] had that they have like four or five generations before us but to

[00:31:42] innovation we constantly find new ways to fulfill them and I guess that's also

[00:31:46] what you're saying that that video was not new but then the internet was a

[00:31:50] new medium to express that video is that yeah I mean I very much agree with that

[00:31:56] quote from that person that you interviewed for sure and if you find the next

[00:32:00] big thing and I'm switching to a next topic now a little bit if you find

[00:32:04] that next day big thing does not mean that that you are the best person to pursue

[00:32:08] that and I'm asking that in the context of the light build green zone moment

[00:32:12] which I allow you to explain that well first let me answer the question I

[00:32:16] don't believe that every person that comes up with the idea is always the best

[00:32:21] person to bring that idea to life I think that's right that's fact right I

[00:32:25] think that ideas are nothing without execution I've been saying that for a

[00:32:28] long time and I think that not every idea that hits us is one that we should

[00:32:32] take forward right sometimes we're not the right person to take it forward

[00:32:35] sometimes it's not the right time timing is everything I think in life in

[00:32:38] business and then sometimes we just don't have the things that we need you

[00:32:41] know my favorite example is like the Star Wars movie right like George Lucas

[00:32:44] had the idea for Star Wars movie long before he actually made the movie Star

[00:32:48] Wars and same thing for James Cameron's Avatar movie right like I think a lot

[00:32:54] of cases that's the way that I would look at ideas so for me I want to

[00:32:58] separate the two because I think light bulb moments are when something hits us

[00:33:01] and we all know what that feels like right zone is is a concept that I've

[00:33:06] curated from a lot of other thinking and frameworks around this idea of

[00:33:10] what is your zone of genius right so zone of genius was based on a book I

[00:33:15] believe called the Big League by Gay Hendrix if my memories used to be

[00:33:18] correctly and with that what he basically described with the zone of genius

[00:33:22] is what is the thing that gives you energy that that lights you up that

[00:33:28] also brings you joy and fulfillment that you're also really good at so one of

[00:33:32] things he breaks down this book it's a great book I highly recommend it but if

[00:33:35] you don't read the book I'll give you the sort of cliff notes I read this

[00:33:37] article called you know green zones which are referencing and ultimately what

[00:33:41] it comes down to is we have a zone of incompetence like the things were not

[00:33:44] good at we have a zone of like ignorance or things we don't know about we

[00:33:48] have you know a zone of competence things that were good at but maybe we don't

[00:33:51] love those things right maybe just like just because we're good at it doesn't

[00:33:54] mean that we we love it we want to do it that happens a lot as we sort of

[00:33:58] grow in our careers no matter what it is the zone of genius is sort of this

[00:34:01] intersection of what's the stuff that you're really good at that you really

[00:34:06] love to do and that really lights you up and I think that that's a really

[00:34:10] important thing to realize I see that with a lot of founders that they have a

[00:34:14] thing that lights them up going from zero to one as Peter Tiel talks about

[00:34:17] and when they get to a point of scale then they want to step back and it's

[00:34:22] really better at that point for another CEO to come in and scale the company

[00:34:26] and why I say that specifically just is because I do a lot of work with

[00:34:30] founders so I think it tracks for me it's my how I spend a lot of my time but

[00:34:34] that zone of genius is finding it means that the most important thing we can

[00:34:38] know is ourselves and you have to have high self awareness if you're gonna in

[00:34:42] my opinion the best person to know is yourself because then from from there

[00:34:45] you can develop emotional intelligence you can develop boundaries you can

[00:34:48] develop these systems and these are things that I just I'm sharing them now

[00:34:51] with so much passion but like even just a couple years ago I had no clue on

[00:34:55] how they worked so one of the things I do now with all of the people that I

[00:34:58] coach whether they're employees that work for me or run that are running my

[00:35:02] companies or clients that I'm serving is I sit down and do this exercise with

[00:35:06] them and I ask them what is their zone of genius and there's a set of questions

[00:35:09] that I have them go through first thing I have them to do is a time audit where

[00:35:13] where's all their time going and then just with a highlighter you know if you

[00:35:16] want to print it out you can also do digitally around your phone but like

[00:35:19] what's the like okay you just did a thing market green as it gives you energy

[00:35:24] market yellow or orange it's taking your energy but like not too much or

[00:35:28] market red like it just sucks your soul dry right so I'll give you a perfect

[00:35:32] example of it one of things recently was working with the CTO and he's responsible

[00:35:37] for a very big software product I can't say which one but you might have heard

[00:35:40] of it and he was spending a lot of his time in meetings and it was taking him

[00:35:45] away from his magic superpower his ingenious which is really building these

[00:35:49] like scalable architectures right they recently took this really big

[00:35:52] monolithic framework broke it down into a series of microservices which

[00:35:56] totally created scale for the company is really amazing and I realized was

[00:35:59] he had these limiting beliefs around needing to meet with his teams so I said

[00:36:04] okay well what happened what would happen if you didn't meet he's like well

[00:36:07] then we wouldn't stay in touch I'm like what would happen if you could stay

[00:36:09] in touch she's like well if I could just like put some thoughts down and get

[00:36:13] those out to people and they could hear my passion and my thoughts then that

[00:36:17] would help and I said well that's amazing do you think you could do that from

[00:36:21] here right now in five minutes and he's like yeah I said okay well let's start

[00:36:24] using a tool called loom and you're going to record notes and you're going to

[00:36:27] put them in a slack channel and your product managers can see it and they can

[00:36:30] make sure that your teams and everything are able to do that and then instead of

[00:36:33] you having to be in these long meetings you can do it that way with that serve

[00:36:36] your needs and he's like oh my god yes now what we found is he's sending on

[00:36:39] average one the two looms a day that are five to seven minutes long right so

[00:36:43] now instead of him spending an hour every day which is like an hour and a half

[00:36:47] a day in meetings and then the fatigue from switching from thing to thing he's

[00:36:50] saving like eight hours a week and that eight hours as we know as engineers

[00:36:54] is like focus for him to be able to really think about the bigger picture

[00:36:57] problems so now he's happier yeah right through the coaching session because

[00:37:00] he found his own a genius and he leaned into it right that but yeah first you

[00:37:04] got to start with where you're at right now what's taking your time and energy

[00:37:07] and what gets scheduled gets done and I think we can either let our schedules

[00:37:12] schedule us or we can schedule our schedule so that's how I would answer the

[00:37:15] green zone and for me what my green zone is is being at the center of how all

[00:37:21] the things can get come together right what I've realized is I might not be

[00:37:24] the best drummer or the best guitarist or the best coder but playing the

[00:37:28] orchestra is something that I have a lot of love for right because I've been a

[00:37:32] coder I've been a designer I've done that work in deep totality for many

[00:37:37] years now I can sit back and I can look at how these things come together with

[00:37:41] deep empathy for the people who are like master craftsmen and women in their

[00:37:46] roles and I can sort of play the orchestra in a way that is more about

[00:37:50] directing the energy and attention than it is writing every line of code or

[00:37:55] pushing every pixel or looking at every spreadsheet and that to me is how I

[00:37:59] found my green zone and started to double down on it and I think what that

[00:38:03] turned into for me is my businesses were more successful I was happier and

[00:38:07] ultimately I think I was a better person to be around both personally and

[00:38:11] professionally because of that so that's what worked for me I'm not saying

[00:38:14] it's what worked for you but I do think that what everyone can benefit from is

[00:38:18] a little bit more self-awareness as to where they're at their journey and

[00:38:22] where they're headed next yeah I did treat your your blog posts about the

[00:38:26] green zone and I didn't eat afterwards after a week go back to my calendar

[00:38:31] and mark like what would that do in that week first first that have clarity on

[00:38:36] what am I do and then mark everything green that I really liked and met

[00:38:41] Merck Dredd what I but just sucked my energy and then the rest was orange and

[00:38:46] there's no way what I like what gives me energy because if I can stumble upon an

[00:38:50] idea but I know it's gonna be it's gonna take me into my red zone in

[00:38:54] the set of my green zone I will not be the right person to execute it so that

[00:38:58] was very interesting thank you for sharing that the other question I do have

[00:39:02] about the things that we talked about like getting ideas executing on them

[00:39:07] being visionary you also mentioned this in the introduction before that

[00:39:11] you get ideas you're really visionary it but with forward thinking you found a

[00:39:17] co-founder who was more business development person yeah I think there's a book

[00:39:22] called Rocketfield would just be described as a visionary first an integrator

[00:39:27] yep what if you're an integrator and I see myself more than integrated how do

[00:39:32] I get groundbreaking ideas the first question I would ask is why do you think

[00:39:37] that you need groundbreaking ideas yeah because I always I do think that's

[00:39:41] what I like about your forward obsession is that everything has already been

[00:39:45] done because think about how am I gonna do it better what's the next big thing

[00:39:49] you know that that's what we're chasing aren't we yeah so I think what you're

[00:39:53] referring to as a book called Rocketfield I love that book and the author of that

[00:39:56] book talks about this idea of visionaries and integrators and the

[00:39:59] visionary sort of the one that comes up with a big idea and manages the big

[00:40:02] relationships and and then the integrators the person that kind of brings

[00:40:06] together the people and gets all the work done and I think that there's a

[00:40:10] misconception with that book and I'm actually curious to see if if he was to

[00:40:14] write that book today I'm curious to see how much that book would be different

[00:40:17] so I think that the problem that I would first say is I think a lot of people

[00:40:22] don't realize the importance of an integrator integrators are actually more

[00:40:26] rare to find you know a lot of people that run around that are creating ideas

[00:40:29] I think that like I've had to be in the job seat of a visionary and an

[00:40:34] integrator and by visionary integrator I mean read the book I'm not I'm not

[00:40:38] calling myself a visionary an integrator I'm saying the book describes these

[00:40:41] roles what they do so I want to be very clear with audience but so I believe

[00:40:44] that right now we've sort of gotten a little bit drunk on this idea that we

[00:40:49] always have to be coming up with a big idea and sometimes I think it's the small

[00:40:52] idea that is the big idea when I mean by that specifically is like I'd be

[00:40:56] willing to bet if me and you spent 90 minutes together and you walked me

[00:41:00] through some of your superpowers the different technologies that you work in

[00:41:03] the things that you've built in your career I'd be willing to bet that

[00:41:06] there's a small idea staring right in front of you that we could get some

[00:41:10] energy around that would scale so I think that right now the problem that I see

[00:41:14] is there's this everyone talks about the big idea and the reality is we can look

[00:41:18] at Facebook Google Amazon Apple Netflix all the fang companies we can look

[00:41:22] at some of the biggest companies in the world and they didn't all start out as a

[00:41:25] big idea you know like I wanted to get a girlfriend so I built this

[00:41:31] application and I was mad that I couldn't get a girlfriend so I built this

[00:41:35] application called hot or not or whatever it was called face mash and then I

[00:41:39] got a lot of shit and I was like oh I want to connect with people I'm really

[00:41:42] a disconnected person and I'm a good cooter let me build a little thing that we

[00:41:46] now call a social network and that's Mark Zuckerberg story right right we can

[00:41:50] look at Facebook are met at today like this magical company but it really started

[00:41:53] out as someone just doing something that they knew and loved and all the

[00:41:58] companies started that way right it was like a rebel spirit that wants to make

[00:42:03] computers differently in a passion for making computers and let's take on the

[00:42:06] big blue IBM and that company was called Apple so I think that the thing that

[00:42:10] people often glamorize or dramatize in my opinion is the big idea and I actually

[00:42:16] think the big idea today is the small idea and really focusing on that so what

[00:42:22] I would say as an integrator is I have such a deep respect and empathy for you

[00:42:25] because the integrators are the ones that get the shit done and every company needs

[00:42:29] an integrator I'm wondering if every company needs a visionary and I'm asking

[00:42:34] you know again I I have been blessed and that I've had to wear both hats and I

[00:42:38] think I've done both jobs mediocre at times and you know every once in a while

[00:42:42] I've done good at one of them but it's hard to be both and I do think that

[00:42:45] you need aspects of both but I also think that some of the fastest growing

[00:42:49] companies out there on the planet that have multi-billion dollar valuations

[00:42:52] started out as a small idea started out as a small itch right you think about

[00:42:55] the developer that built Figma which just got recently acquired by Adobe

[00:42:58] right the pain point was why can't we design together in a way where we can

[00:43:04] be in the same file at once pretty basic premise right not not like this big

[00:43:07] crazy transformative idea but he went on any prototype that as an engineer

[00:43:12] and you know figured out a way to like get WebGL to do some incredible stuff

[00:43:16] in the browser and then before you know what we have Figma and now everyone's

[00:43:18] moving off of sketch or everyone's moving off of Adobe or all the different

[00:43:22] products XD this one that and everyone wants to be on the cool kid platform

[00:43:26] had energy right now it's and now we see what it's become so I think

[00:43:32] you can start from a small problem that a lot of people have and if you can show

[00:43:36] people that transformation you can really take it over the gap in a big way

[00:43:39] so I hope that answers your question if nothing else for you as someone that

[00:43:42] I think might have the big idea right in front of you it just might not feel

[00:43:46] big just yet that is very encouraging words for you and I thank you for that

[00:43:50] and that going into the weekend because it's we're recording on Friday afternoon

[00:43:54] for me that is definitely something to mull over like you don't have to perhaps

[00:43:59] don't even know that you got the big ID I mean Mark Zuckerberg didn't know they had

[00:44:02] the big ID it was really something small that he did in his campus and that turned

[00:44:07] into something bigger that you could not have imagined before do something

[00:44:11] different that people don't know that they need or want until they need or

[00:44:15] want it and that's the thing and the best thing to do in my opinion again

[00:44:19] I've read a lot of case studies I can only speak for my experiences and I

[00:44:22] can only speak for the knowledge that I've picked up by watching other

[00:44:25] successful people and sometimes being one of those again sometimes is ultimately

[00:44:29] at the most simple level you have to create a transformation in someone's

[00:44:34] life that when you've done it their eyes light up and it could be as simple as

[00:44:40] like watching people on the street trying to hail a taxi cab in the middle

[00:44:45] of a busy street in New York City getting rained on soaking wet when they just

[00:44:49] want to get home to their family and saying you know what maybe there's a

[00:44:52] better way for me to be able to use my skills as an app developer to build an

[00:44:56] app that can pair people who are looking for work drivers people who are

[00:45:00] looking to push a button and now something like Uber can be born so I think

[00:45:04] sometimes it's it's finding that thing sometimes it's also just looking at

[00:45:07] like look at your code right like you're a developer you're an engineer

[00:45:10] you're like look at all the code that you've written in the past five years

[00:45:13] look at what problems it solved and ask yourself the question of how do I take

[00:45:18] this enterprise engineering background that I have and apply it to a small

[00:45:21] business or a local business that doesn't have that that thing you know look for

[00:45:26] problems and what I would say is problems will find you if you look deep enough

[00:45:29] right my favorite place to hang out used to be coffee shops in busy cities

[00:45:33] and just watching how people will fumble with something right like remember years

[00:45:36] ago I was in a Starbucks coffee shop and I was watching someone fumble on

[00:45:40] their wallet trying to find you know the the the dollars and cents whatever

[00:45:44] and then they were like pull out their credit card and they paid for the

[00:45:46] coffee and I was doing myself so annoying to be able to have to like pull

[00:45:50] your credit card out every time and I kick myself because I'm like shit

[00:45:53] like I had done work with credit card systems before right so I knew like

[00:45:57] authorize.net and gateways and stuff like that had I just got together with

[00:46:01] the right people and came up with a mobile payment terminal that I just

[00:46:05] started small like I could have gone on to start you know this crazy thing so

[00:46:09] I kick myself sometimes because those are things that I thought about but

[00:46:13] instead of following that idea I was probably sitting in my red zone doing

[00:46:16] things I shouldn't be doing right and if I just follow that idea then maybe

[00:46:20] I could have created mobile payments or something like that so that's where I

[00:46:22] I think that people don't hold enough space it's a big mistake I've made in

[00:46:26] my career is I haven't held enough space for myself to think and dream about

[00:46:30] the problems that I have because I was too busy being in my business and not

[00:46:34] working on my business and what I would say is whether you're an individual

[00:46:38] contributor a manager a leader an entrepreneur make sure you hold space even

[00:46:42] an hour a week to just step outside of the machine and look at the machine

[00:46:47] and I think the machine itself has a lot of clues and you know success lays

[00:46:53] clues that makes a lot of sense and I think that's a closure of this episode

[00:46:57] thank you very much for sharing that that is damn back to it inside this interview

[00:47:02] I have to say thank you I mean again I can only share my experiences I hope

[00:47:06] they were valuable for people and again if anybody has any questions or

[00:47:09] clarifications please feel free to reach out to me I'm pretty vocal on

[00:47:13] on social media and I'm just Pete Senna everywhere I you know I've got if

[00:47:17] folks want to check out the stuff I'm writing about I'm on medium quite a

[00:47:20] bit at Pete Senna I'm still on Twitter for the foreseeable future even though

[00:47:24] who knows it's gonna turn into it with with with X and you learn stuff yeah

[00:47:28] and I just love this stuff I love connecting with smart people created people

[00:47:31] that that want to change the world in you know one one line of code or one

[00:47:36] product or one thing at a time so happy to connect love this stuff and

[00:47:40] super passionate about it and love what you're doing Florian so thanks for having

[00:47:42] on the show thank you very much Pete and there you have it another inspiring

[00:47:48] episode of the I'd hate with Florian podcast as always I encourage you to

[00:47:52] visit our website at ideatefit Florian dot com that is id8bitfloorian dot

[00:47:59] com here you'll find links related to this episode as well as all the

[00:48:03] episodes my name is Florian Horna and I hope the story inspired you thank

[00:48:08] you for joining me and until next time